I did a post 8 months ago: Confederate Flag: Hate or Heritage? and it has been a constant thorn in my side! Who knew people were so passionate about this issue? 🙂 OK, well I did that’s why I wrote it.
In the responses that ensued, I believe my point was proven. Overall no matter how you slice it racist intention or not aside, many blacks view the Confederate Flag as a symbol of white supremest ideology while many whites believe it’s part of their Southern Heritage?
The reason I and many others don’t quite buy into that, even though we know without a shadow of a doubt (or we should know) that every rebel flag owner is not, I repeat, is not a racist, that doesn’t detract one iota from the feelings that image/flag generates in us, because I don’t and many others do not believe that the flags supporters have adequately defined what “Southern Heritage” is all about.
We have heard it all from Southern “culture” to remembrance of the dead Confederate troops, but none has convincingly explained what culture in the south the flag helps remind us of that is no longer there and what noble cause the troops fought for that all people should honor.
I mean I wrote this post 8 months ago and every day I check my blog stats and out of my daily average of about 90 views a day this one post almost always accounts for at least half of them!
Which is why I can’t quite understand why it is that on average 45 people a day who frequent that thread have not put forward an adequate definition as to why they support the Confederate flag. At best, I get proof that many are not racists, but I knew that, at worst I get flooded with racial slurs and accusations.
However, I haven’t been given a definition of southern “culture” or “heritage” yet, that adequately defines what was lost in the south’s culture and heritage that must be preserved and this flag calls remembrance to.
In the minds of many blacks it’s pretty cut and dry. That culture is a culture of white supremacy, slavery, and hostility to blacks. That culture is a culture of total disregard of humanity and human rights…unless of course your white. And the Confederacy began because of state’s rights, however those rights were to protect the institution of slavery and considering blacks as nothing more than property, which they ultimately fought and died for.
Let’s make one thing clear: Just because I was born and raised in NJ that doesn’t mean that I don’t like the south. I live and love Virginia, I was partially raised in North Carolina, and a good chunk of my family resides in the great state of Alabama. I’m just a little confused. Please humor me, you staunch defendants of this flag. What did the South loose that was so great and worthy of remembrance? What part(s) of their culture was lost? What heritage must be protected and preserved? If it’s the fried chicken, collard greens, baked macaroni and cheese, black-eyed peas, etc. etc. i.e. Sunday dinner, hush puppies, etc. (sorry I’m hungry) I am all for that, I support you. Can’t say I don’t find the southern dialect a little funny, I am from the north, but heh, many laugh at those from NJ, NY, and of course Boston, but heh, I would defend that too!
Is it country music? Lawd knows I can’t stand it, but I would defend that too! Nascar can’t stand it either, but defend able nonetheless.
What is it?
To me and many blacks, the only thing missing is the slaves and the ability to treat black people anyway you want without repercussion, although many still try today, and some do get away with it! The only thing added is that blacks do own land, businesses, are in politic, etc. are are successful. Black people can actually vote now (although many fools don’t) and black women don’t have to nurse white babies, scrub floors, etc. no more 60 year old black men calling 20 year old white men sir, etc. etc.
I just don’t get it, nor do many blacks…
An American Muslim 
“what noble cause the troops fought for that all people should honor.”
_____________
Self-defense is never a bad cause.
“There is a class of people [in the South], men, women, and children, who must be killed or banished before you can hope for peace and order.”
“The government of the U.S. has any and all rights which they choose to enforce in war – to take their lives, their homes, their land, their everything…war is simply unrestrained by the Constitution…to the persistent secessionist, why, death is mercy, and the quicker he or she is disposed of the better…
General William T. Sherman
____________
Scroll down to see what other symbols the Klan has used-
http://www.pointsouth.com/csanet/kkk.htm
[He-who-shall-not-be-named] The Confederate Flag is our Ancestors and our Banner of resistance against government tyranny in the 2nd Revolution for our FREEDOM!
This story is true and has a source.
In 1794 the Whiskey Rebellion was actually a triumph of LIBERY over federalism and taxation.
The Whiskey Rebellion of 1794 was in response to an excise tax on whiskey that the Federal Government had imposed, with the expressed purpose of paying off the National Debt. The Federal Government had taken responsibility of the state’s debts relating to the Revolutionary War, and as such, needed a vehicle with which to pay off those debts.
Like so many such taxes leveled today, the excise tax on whiskey was structured in such a way that it gave an advantage to the large distillers, who paid a flat fee, while small distillers were forced to pay by the gallon. This put, in the minds of the small distillers, an unfair burden on the little guy. the result was rebellion.
You see, it wasn’t JUST Western Pennsylvania that opposed the excise tax on whiskey. All of the western “back country” opposed the tax, and refused to pay it.
President Washington and Secretary Hamilton chose to make a fuss about Western Pennsylvania precisely because in that region there was a cadre of wealthy officials who were willing to collect taxes. Such a cadre did not even exist in the other areas of the American frontier; there was no fuss or violence against tax collectors in Kentucky and the rest of the back-country because there was no one willing to be a tax collector.
So, in fact, the Federalist Washington was defeated in his attempt to impose Federal law on the populace, because while the Whiskey Rebellion was set down in Western Pennsylvania, the rest of the “back country’ never did pay the tax.
Washington, Hamilton, and the Cabinet covered up the extent of the revolution because they didn’t want to advertise the extent of their failure. They knew very well that if they tried to enforce, or send an army into, the rest of the back-country, they would have failed. Kentucky and perhaps the other areas would have seceded from the Union then and there. Both contemporary sides were happy to cover up the truth, and historians fell for the deception.
The Whiskey Rebellion, then, considered properly, was a victory for liberty and property rather than for federal taxation. Perhaps this lesson will inspire a later generation of American taxpayers who are so harried and downtrodden as to make the whiskey or stamp taxes of old seem like Paradise.
Once again, it appears, we have all been deceived by our government, almost from its inception. We can only be thankful that patriots like [He-who-shall-not-be-named] still exist, or we would never have any freedoms in this country, at all.
From Red State Rightyblogs.com
http://www.redstate.com/blogs/lord_vegas/2007/oct/26/george_washington_it_seems_was_no_he_who_shall_not_be_named
(Please post with this website link ..it’s a bit more relevant than the other.)
I might regret this, but I must admit I really don’t get the attachment to this flag either. Although I’m as white as white can be (by which I mean I burn in the sun and can’t even develop a base tan), I must admit I view this flag as a symbol of oppression. I can’t help but to associate it with the slavery and plantation lifestyle that existed up to (and even a bit beyond) the Civil War.
Perhaps it’s because I live in the “North”? Is this really a flashback to my impression and understanding of what led to the Civil War?
Is today’s pride in the flag representative of something else?
In President Lincoln’s first inaugural address, he said, “I have no purpose, directly or indirectly, to interfere with the institution of slavery in the states where it exists. I believe I have no lawful right to do so.”
Lincoln was a fascist awful President. He threw journalists in jail for God’s sakes !!!!
In The War for States’ Rights the North’s tendency to want slavery abolished was included in their reasons for succession from the Union…however it was not the only reason. The hudge economic reason was the North’s imposition of a Tariff on goods the South desperately needed to operate from England. (I don’t know if they were getting their goods taxed that were getting exported or if it was the imported goods..sorry).
The Rebel Flag is to me a symbol of Defiance against an Oppressive Regime that isn’t treating it’s subjects fairly. It’s an attitude that we definitely don’t have enough of in this country these days!
“…. a symbol of Defiance against an Oppressive Regime that isn’t treating it’s subjects fairly.” That sounds like a phrase taken from a civil rights movement. Yet you used it defending a symbol that was used and is used by white supremasists to identify themselves as “rebels”. I wander what the African Americans used as “a symbol of Defiance against an Oppresive Regime that isn’t treating it’s subjects fairly.” ? Oh, wait they didn’t use a symbol they created a movement against their Oppresive Regime.
Amen!
Nur Jemal, at least that’s an answer and it makes sense.
hello. Again. I answered the original confederate flag thing, saying it is not racist, it is heritage. i just read Nur Jemal’s repsonse and i agree with him. And everyone always takes the flag back to the civil war and says it was a war for slavery and a symbol of hate. i respect ur right to that opinion, but i say F*** You!!! each side is as much to blame for the civil war as the other. Yes the south did have slaves, but very few people in the south actually owned one. They werent fighting for slavery, they were fighting for states rights. The north wouldn’t leave the south the F*** alone, and used slavery as propoganda for the civil war. (or the “War of Northern Aggression”). The point is if someone aint hurting you, leave them the fuck alone! thier shit is none of ur damn buisness.
I’m sorry, but it’s pretty obvious to me that you aren’t very educated on this matter. Many people in the South owned not just some, but lots of slaves. Now, I agree that Lincoln did the right thing for the wrong reason, but I think he did the right thing. Nothing is more noble than defending against intolerance that doesn’t directly affect you. Even if it doesn’t “hurt” you, it still adds to the degradation of society as a whole, which then in effect does hurt you. I would also like to let you know personally that your belligerent attitude and language does nothing to help your cause, it just makes you sound unintelligent.
I fully respect anyone’s right to rebel if they so choose, I don’t agree with everything in this country either. But why are you so attached to that symbol? That one is obviously offensive to people and has a racist undertone (I would say overtone actually). I truly can’t believe you saying it’s just heritage. Also saying that it isn’t racist means nothing coming from you, because later it sounded like you were saying that the North should have left those nice southerners alone about their slavery. Or maybe I misunderstood you? Anyway, my guess is that -like me- you are white and therefore can’t know what it’s like to confront that particular symbol of hate as one of it’s victims. But I know that it makes me want to vomit, so I can’t imagine what’s it’s like to see one if you’re black.
So either:
1. You are just not thinking things through compasionately and looking at facts.
Or
2. You are harboring your own personal racism deep under the commonly acceptable guise of “heritage” in a sad attept to cling to your symbol of racism and wash it clean in the eyes of non-haters.
“Many people in the South owned not just some, but lots of slaves.”
That’s not true. The average slave in Virginia during the 1800’s cost $1,500, which the is equivalent to around $30,000 in today’s money. Only the wealthy could afford slaves, and the majority of slave owners only had one or two slaves. Granted there were extremely wealthy plantation owners that could afford 20-30, but this idea of hundreds of slaves working in the fields is just not an accurate description. Also, only 20% of the entire south owned slaves. In cities like New York, and Philadelphia those percentages were close to 25% during the late 1700’s. My family never owned slaves, and countless others never owned slaves but yet they fought for their states’ rights, and where they lived. When Robert E. Lee was offered to lead the union army he declined. He said that he must fight for his state, Virginia.
Slavery is a complicated subject that is in no way an exclusively southern issue. History is rewritten by the victors. Slavery was a policy under the american flag long before there was a confederate battle flag, which by the way was never actually the confederate national flag. The soldiers who lost there lives under this flag, for the most part, didn’t own slaves.
The ships that were used to trade slaves were owned by northern companies. The slaves from africa were captured by africans and sold to these northern owned ships. The southern states simply bought the slaves because they needed the workers. If you could grow cotton in new jersey, we might have some really funny talkin’ southerners.
The war was about money, as all wars are. Northern states wanted to free the slaves as long as they didn’t enter the north after they were free. They didn’t even want them to settle in the new western region. They wanted the freed slaves shipped back to africa. (Liberia ring any bells) Lincoln’s own state of illinois had laws against blacks living within its borders. These laws were backed by the great emancipator himself. Slavery was already on the way out in the south. There were already free slaves in the south before the war. Oprah’s ancestor was a land owner. Freed slaves owned slaves. The policies of the north before the war, during the war and during reconstruction were devastating to the south, and the blacks who lived there. Many southern slave owners treated slaves better than some northerners do now. They just pay minimum wage and let blacks live in slums and projects. The number of hours worked by slaves was less than many blacks supporting there families now. The lifestyle of slaves was much closer to that of their owners under slavery than a common worker now is to a company owner. Read other books than the ones the government handed you in school, it’s your history. Find the truth, ignorance of history is tragic, especially when it’s your own.
As to the flag, the confederate battle flag, originally the battle flag of the army of northern virginia, it is a symbol to many of resistance to tyranny by a nation well within it’s rights under the us constitution to secede from the union. Its a symbol of the just fight of men who died for what they believed was right. The flag has been used by racist, so has the cross. Should we remove all crosses from our churches? Slave ships flew american flags, should we change it?
I live in the country in south carolina, outside charleston. My neighbors are black for the most part. They would not be here had it not been for slavery. They are nice people, and I would rather have them for neighbors than your average yankee any day. I would not fly a confederate battle flag in my yard because they only know it as a symbol of oppression, and it is not my place to educate them. However I could fly the first national flag of the confederacy and they wouldn’t even know what it is. If they asked it would open the door to an honest explanation.
Maybe that is the solution. The confederate battle flag was meant to be flown over troops during battle, and the battle is over. The first national flag of the confederacy was not flown during battle because is was easily confused with the union jack. If everyone who is not a racist would fly this flag instead, they could still honor their heritage, make a statement about standing up to tyranny, and possibly open up lines of communication at the same time.
Oppression by any government of any people is a terrible thing. Take a minute to consider which groups are using policies that truly hold people back today. Some groups use issues such as 147 year old flags to make themselves seem important, and distract the people it claims to help from the issues that truly matter. It’s as if they are inflaming old wounds rather than trying healing them. Seek the truth… (You know the rest)
there aint no such thing as a mislim american, because if you are a muslim, you aint an American. We are Christians in America. We believe in Jesus, not some crazy cave hiding “messenger”. so please remove yourselves from my country. And please dont bomb my nation again.
Separation of church and state. Sorry, but if you were a real patriot, you wouldn’t be so bigoted and you would realize that fredom of religion is one of the things that makes our country great. You can’t want freedom from England’s religious oppression and then turn around and do it to someone else. Just because you’re Muslim, doesn’t mean you’re radical. And besides, there are tons of Christian radicals. But you probably don’t mind that, do you?
*freedom
Dear sebas, you prove my point for me.
I would love to know in what capacity have you served America and when are you going to go to Arlington National Cemetery and dig up the Muslim soldiers and kick down their headstones?
I agree fully with david, as i have studied the subject exstensively.I live in North Carolina on a 100 acre farm.I myself fly the bonnie blue and the stars and bars (the national flag) outside of my house and no black freind of mine even new that they were confederate. I belive that people should know the truth of the reasons for the civil war. It was not about slavery, but economic or money reasons. The reason you see slavery as the cause in the history books is because in all wars the winner gets what is called “bragging rights” that basicly means that they write the history books the way wich best suits them. In this case it was making southerners look like racist slave owners that wanted slavery kept at all costs. this is not true. but what i do not understand is why are some black americans wallowing in the fact that my great great grandfather may have owned slaves? They seem to hold the grudge on whites. What im trying to say is i belive that Blacks should let there grudges go and the southerners that are preserving there heretage not rub it in everyones face because whether i or you like it or not it is a touchy matter. To help answer your question about southern culture, there is more to southern culture than fried chicken, and im sorry but i dont have time to explain every little bit of southern culture to you, for there is too much for one person to know. The War of Southern Independence (The Civil War) was the same as the Revolutionary War, we were fighting for our independence. We havent forgotten the Revolutionary war so dont expect me to forget the civil war
The South was fighting for the constitution. States rights, etc. This argument has already been made so i’ll stop with that. But, the south had it wrong on slavery, just as many of our founders (constitutional framers) had it wrong on slavery. The cause overall (states rights, freedom) was a very noble one, but because they had it wrong on slavery it is very hard to defend “the south”. Now, our federal government is way to powerfull and overbearing in people’s lives. We pay triple the taxes to the fed’s as we do the states, its supposed to be the other way around. I could NEVER, NEVER, support owning another human as property. If you believe slaves were human beings (i think we can all agree they were), then slavery itself is unconstitutional. That is why i don’t fly a rebel flag, wear rebel flag t shirts etc. Because I despise slavery. BUT, i still sympathize to some degree with those who do fly their flag b/c on the inside I am screaming “WHAT ABOUT STATES RIGHTS! WHAT ABOUT THE CONSTITUTION! WHAT HAS THIS NATION BECOME!” Anyway that’s my personal view, slavery is evil, it was good to end it, but i am sorry that it cost us some America in the process. Honest Abe could have ended slavery a better way. He could have bought the slaves (for cheaper than waging war) , he could have worsened economic sanctions, he could have done more before resorting to attacks. I definately agree we should have freed the slaves, I HATE SLAVERY IT IS DISPICABLE, but I also am horrified at what our country has become today, partly because of the civil war, but also b/c of many events thereafter. I really have mixed emotions on the whole thing b/c i am so passionate about wanting out nation to return to its constitutional intention. But i definately support the right to fly whatever flag you want although I would never fly another above the US flag, and say anything you want about the confederacy as long as you’re not raising a militia. Anyway I’m rambling now but I hope this makes sense.
Also to Robert Salaam: Sebas is clearly a troll, trolls say stupid things to get people pissed off… an instigator if you will. When you argue with a troll you are giving them what they want. You are encouraging more troll behavior by responding. Ignore the troll, don’t feed the troll.
I would be considered by the majority a black man. I have held that title since my birth. Now about the flag issue. People need to do research before they talk out of ignorance. THE FLAG DOES NOT MEAN RACISM! it’s those racist who who like you to think that. It’s a flag of an era. They wanted to break away from the northern territoies like the northern broke away from British control. Slavery was an issue that seems to draw the most attention. If you research you’ll discover the true reason was that the north told the south to stop with farming and agriculture and move to industrial economy. That is the main reason for the war. Now slavery had a small part to play because at that time, certain northern people still owned slaves. Now with that knowledge, how can one say it was all about slavery. Also the flag we see today as the confederate flag is the second “print”. The original was blue with a white border and white X.
Now let’s not forget the blacks that have the black pride flag. They wave it in ignorance also. It was orginally designed as a way to basically show their racism. An tit for tat type of mentally. For example, World War 2 Germany. Many use the swastika as a symbol of hate. If they knew they true start they would crap their pants. It started in Africa about 3000 years earlier and was a symbol of peace and equallity.
All this leads me to saying that the design of a flag doesn’t make it evil or means hate, it’s he who bares that flag and what they try to make it mean!
Support the Troops! Some gave all, all gave some!
i dont think it is being racist i hate all equal
to me the flag stands for all the lives lost in the civil war both black and white. then there is the issue that it does not mean racism. groups such as the KKK took many symbols such as this one and gave them there meaning today. The KKK also used the Burning cross but no one tries to ban it or views that as a racist sign. all I gotta say is remember that the true meaning of a symbol is not given by those who use it.
The Confederate flag symbolizes the death of the Confederacy. The Southern states lost a LOT in that war. Without slavery, their economy was destroyed. I’m not saying slavery is right, but there is no arguing that it served an economic purpose. And in addition, the southern states were effectively forced to join the Union. That’s history and heritage, if you ask me.
Now, I’m from New England and I love it here, and I’m not a huge fan of the whole Confederate Flag thing. Personally, I think people should get over the fact that THEY LOST THE WAR. But such it is. That’s my personal opinion, and I know I have a handful of other opinions that people would love to tell me to shut up about.
Put another way, Jesus on the crucifix is also offensive. The early Christians persecuted Muslims, Jews, and Pagans. Anyone belonging to any of those religious groups should, by your logic, be able to say “DUDE I WANT THAT CRUCIFIX GONE NOW”.
I would cast my vote in to the “resounding no” category in the question of whether the Confederate Flag should be banned, because the First Amendment right of Freedom of Speech was there way before the concept of political correctness was, and I am really tired of seeing people told what beliefs they can and cannot publicize.
I wear a Human Rights Campaign wristband on my arm every day, in schools, in churches, and everywhere else. That would be hugely offensive to a lot of people, but such it is.
And I don’t want the door opened to where people can tell me that I have to take it off.
me & brooke are full blown rebels if u dont like it just tell me i wont hold it against u
ha i will hold against u !!!!!!!!!!!!!
For those who think that the CSA flag is about slavery you need to think again. This flag was made in order to show that since the north wanted to be diffrent from the south and take the USA flag..CSA made a flag to show that the south is diffrent and not agreeing with the north. As a southerner i am proud of the CSA the flag stands for my heratage and its never comeing down. And to put a pint out there the so called “american” flag was 1st and they were the 1st to buy slaves so back off the CSA flag and shut your mouth. SOUTH RULES AND ALWAYS WILL.
Thank You,
Perkins—A CSA SAPORTER
We all lost States rights.Just look at the federal gov. since the civil war.We also lost the truth in history. If everyone would take a deep look it the history surronding the Civil War and I mean all side people would find out alot the think is inacurate look for yourselves also the perception of anything dose not make it so,or right just because someone wants it to. I personal fly the Bonnie Blue
You do make a very good point talkin bout how there is no need for the flag anymore and how you don’t understand what peoples attachment to the flag is. see thats just it you DON’T UNDERSTAND! so therefore you have no reason to be badmouthing our flag or the great men women and children of this country that stand behind it. That would be like me telling you about yankees i don’t like them or understand them so therefore i don’t talk about them. Another thing is everyone says that the flag stands for hate, racism, biggotry, slavery, ETC. But yall idgets must realize all that existed before the flag did! The only reason the confederate battle flag exists is because it is the battle flag for the confederacy. Racism was here before and no matter if the flag gets banned or not it will still be here after. So you might as well quit your bitchin, not to be rude but if nothing has changed yet 143 years after the war nothing ever will! WARN THE WOMEN AND GATHER THE MEN MY GOD THE SOUTH IS RISING AGAIN!
We know that the battle flag is not actually a confederate flag. It was a battle flag,never adopted its self as a national flag. Also it has nothing to do with the KKK. They used it after the civil war.OK!Now let us dig really deep. The south was populated by a whole bunch of Scotts during that time. One of the deciples of Jesus was ST.Andrews. The Scotts adopted him as their patron ST. of Scottland. When ST. Andrews was crucified in Edessa Greece they put his cross in the shape of an X as he did not want to be crucified the same way as jesus. And the stars are the 11 confederate states and two more for the alli states. So you see the flag is the cross of ST. Andrews. A religous symbol for the scotts. There is your heritage. As for been a sign of racisim,HAHA. Slavery started in Africa moved to Purtugal Spain Berbers everywhere through europe. Lets not forget that the blacks kidnapped their own people and did this to themselves. And only 10 PERCENT of the blacks were brought to the US. So what about the rest of the world. Just the south is bad. Get an education. The north had slaves also. And treated them worse. When they were freed up there people were killing them because they were flooding the job market. And they still had some slaves through the Civil War.Lincolns emancipation did not free the slaves in the north or any loyal border states. Only the south to have a moral reason to invade to got the popular opinion. We were invaded for money like the guy said earlier. The southern rivers do not freeze like the norths do. We made 168 MILLION DOLLARS a year in import and export WHILE the NORTH ONLY MADE 68 MILLION a YEAR. SO THERE.Abraham even said himself he just wanted a gov. of the same in one country. His words are as follows IF I COULD SAVE THE UNION BUY FREEING THE SLAVES I WOULD. IF I COULD SAVE THE UNION BY NOT FREEING THE SLAVES I WOULD. IF I COULD SAVE THE UNION BY FREEING SOME AND NOT OTHERS I WOULD DO THAT ALSO. Please get an education on American History and what symbols mean befor you make judgement calls. After all the pennicle was not bad until some idiot turned it upsidedown. Thank You for your time everyone. Peace and Hairgreese. HAHAHAHAaaa
The Confederate flag was not bad until KKK “after the civil war” made it bad.
Listen. I only have one comment on the subject. How long are we going to allow other people to tell us what what to do when it is viewed “offensive”.Come-on people! We already have had to take religion out of the schools, in god we trust off the money, one nation under god from the pledge of allegiance,… when is it going to end? I am 37 years young and here is the use of the word god for the last time, I am goddam sick and tired of those people (and you know who you are) who seem to have nothing better to do than minding other peoples business! As far as heritage is concerned, maybe it is to some people and as long as there not on a street corner screaming “I hate blacks”, leave em alone. I am a huge southern rock fan and for me I like the flag, it was flown at many of the concerts that I attended along with alot of my “black friends” they never once left a concert because of a flag. I am very proud of the thousands of men and women (black, white, Indian, Hispanic, Chinese, japaneese,…ect) who have lost their lives and the ones who strap it on every day for this great country to defend the freedom and rights that we all enjoy every day. If everyone would lighten up a little this world would be a better place. If you don’t like to look at that flag, look past it and wonder how many times in the past someone has done the same for you when you did something that could have possibly been “offensive” to them.
I could not agree more with Mr. Jim holsinger more he is exactly right even though we obviously feel a little differently about the flag at least thats a straight up answer. Every since the other day when i first visited this site and voiced my opinion on the subject i have been checking back to read other peoples comments and see if maybe you’ve founds the answer you’ve been looking for. I just have one question for you Mr. Robert salaam. What kind of answer is it you are looking for? Are you waiting for some black guy to say anyone that likes the flag is a damn racist redneck? Or are you waiting for some kkk member to get on here and start mouthin off bout hatin niggers and jews? I for 1 agree with jim and thats about the best answer i’ve read yet. I’m not gonna stand here and lie and say i hate blacks or like them but no matter whether the answer is. Why do people let it get to them. Every day of my life i deal with people who hate me who dislike me my dad which disowns me and you know what i just keep on rolling with the flow and don’t let it bother me. I wonder why everyone else can’t do the same? could i get an aswer to that Mr. Salaam?
Dear Readers,
First and foremost thanks for visiting my blog. I pray by now that you have realized that my blog is about the American Muslim Experience and not about the Confederate Flag! 🙂
My Question(s) concerning the original subject of “Hate or Heritage” was one that was intended to express my personal opinion and that of many blacks I have encountered.
As far as an answer, I already conceded to the fact in both posts that supporters of the flag for the most part, are not racists and have no ill intention behind their support for the flag against blacks. That is a non-issue to me.
However, many in their defense only reinforced that point. I don’t have to hear over and over that you support the flag not because of racism. I got it. I wrote it before you did.
But, I wanted to express why many blacks feel the way they do. What I wanted to hear is why whites feel the way they do. Particularly as it relates to the concept(s) of “heritage” and “culture”.
The number one argument has been that the flag represents southern heritage and culture.
What is southern heritage and culture?
I am not advocating that people who like the flag be labeled anything. I never did. Nor did I advocate against their right to support that flag either.
But, I want to examine what people think when looking at such a divisive image.
You don’t have to like how people feel one way or the other, but that doesn’t detract from their feeling nonetheless. I’m trying to answer the why.
Why is it that blacks look at the flag one way and whites another?
The question is not whether or not I like anybody. I don’t get up everyday wondering about a flag. Don’t misread what I wrote. It’s truly just two questions I asked, you can answer them or not, the choice is yours.
1: What is southern heritage and culture?
2: Why is it that blacks look at the flag one way and whites another?
Brainwashed.
The thing is they have said what southern heritage is, that we are the descendants of those who fought for our rights against a government in the north attempting to oppress us, read what David wrote before that dumbass sebas, and you’ll find the answer. Our culture supports that heritage, that at heart we are still the southern rebel, unwilling to do what the federal government tells us just because it is the federal government, we have always believed in primarily states rights, and it’s apart of our “culture,” thus we use the confederate flag to represent that facet. This has all been said, you don’t seem to be reading what is said, you seem to be falling into that willful ignorance that you claim to be against.
As for why blacks think one way and whites another, well, that is the work of nation wide culture for you. It tells blacks that these “white trash” southerners are being racist and using the flag as a rallying symbol. How often in history are blacks told that they’re ancestors fought on both sides of the civil war. While I am white, I know I didn’t hear that said until I took a college level history class, at which point it really is too late, the “idea” is already ingrained. Maybe if that fact was introduced back when they were taking they’re first history classes, they wouldn’t feel so bad about it. Hey, we’re taught to venerate President Lincoln, and he abused his power and disregarded the constitution the worst out of any president. The way history is taught is as often a lie as it is fact.
Helios stop sugar coating it. The reason why blks and some white people says that the Confederate Flag is racist is because. In history class had to sit there and watch racism movies bout white people (kkk) killing,hanging,raping,etc blk people. And what flags did we see in those movies that the KKK was carring? The Confederate flag and the Knoxy Flag. I live in the south and I’ve seen those Confederate Flags on the back of vehicles and some had very nasty things about blk people on it. I know most white people who have those Confederate Flag symbol is not racist. But the flag it self represent Racism.
black guy:you also put the minorties in fucking lower classes and shitty schools. dont even have a chance to be on the same level. if a black kid tries to take AP counselor’s encourage them not to. so maybe they are a little bitter but maybe you shouldn’t have such low fucking expectations.
white guy:You pass me on the street and sneer in my direction.
You call me “Cracker”, “Honkey”, “Whitey” and even “The Man” and you think it’s OK.
But when I call you, “Nigger”, “Kike”, “Towelhead”, “Sand-Nigger”, “Camel Jockey”, “Beaner”, “wetback” or “Chink” you call me a racist.
You say that whites commit a lot of violence against you, so why are the ghettos the most dangerous places to live?
You have the United Negro College Fund.
You have Martin Luther King Day.
You have Cesar Chavez Day.
You have Yom Hashoah
You have Ma’uled Al-Nabi
You have the NAACP.
You have BET.
If we had WET(white entertainment television) we’d be racists.
If we had a White Pride Day you would call us racists.
If we had white history month, we’d be racists.
If we had an organization for only whites to “advance” our lives, we’d be racists.
If we had a college fund that only gave white students scholarships, you know we’d be racists.
In the Million Man March, you believed that you were marching for your race and rights.
If we marched for our race and rights, you would call us racists.
You are proud to be black, brown, yellow and orange, and you’re not afraid to announce it.
But when we announce our white pride, you call us racists.
You rob us, carjack us, and shoot at us.
But, when a white police officer shoots a black gang member or beats up a black drug-dealer running from the law and posing a threat to society, you call him a racist.
I am white.
I am proud.
White Power!!! (not cool) -why isn’t it cool? would you have a problem if it said black power? or if it said hispanic power? what’s wrong with white power?
im happy i’m white, are you not?
this isn’t even racist, it’s just pointing out something that’s verry true. if a black person or a mexican or whatever calls a whiteperson a cracker/honkey/whatever it’s fine but technically they are racist terms. if a black guy walked up to a random white guy on the street and called him a cracker then the white guy turned around and called him a nigger… guess who would get thrown in jail. the white guy.
Well I just want to say. Ur not being fair at all. Point made. I was brought up by my great grands and they both was living in the slavery dayz. I’ve heard all kinds of stories on how the white man done the blacks. And u wonder why some blks do wrong. If ur ancestors would of left us blks alone then maybe blks wouldn’t be bad in ur eyes. We are not niggers u white people named us that. So hell ya a blk person will get mad because of it don’t get mad at us get mad at ur ancestors. We are African Americans (Africans) not niggers. So stop sugar coating the Confederate Flag. It was meant for racism and it still is. If ur a racist there is no room for u in HEAVEN. Like Rodney King said “Can’t we all just get along?” One more thang to the racist white people out there. Have u looked around lately? All ur white women are going after blk men now. LOL.
Yes, black people can be racist too. But it is obvious from your speech that you have judgement on them. You do have one good point, it is racist to have special months or channels for blacks. The reason for that though is that they still haven’t recovered from having the hell knocked out of them by racists and being called a honkey doesn’t mean shit. When were honkeys oppressed?? But turn that on it’s head, who is it racist to? A special month for black people? Souldn’t ALL months be for black people (or anyone)? So, if you look at it that way, it could come across as more racist to blacks than whites.
1. I don’t give a shit what color my skin is. I like myself white, but I would also like myself black. It doesn’t matter, just different shades.
2. “You rob us, carjack us, and shoot at us.” Hmmm, don’t white people do those things too??
3. Don’t use the “N” word, it makes me sick.
4. “When a white police officer shoots a black gang member or beats up a black drug-dealer running from the law and posing a threat to society, you call him a racist.” Well, the cops aren’t actually supposed to beat the crap out of people, or shoot anyone without a damn good reason (sorry, but being a black gang member or drug dealer just isn’t enough of a reason) and if you haven’t noticed it’s usually blacks. Or maybe you don’t understand what cops do? Cops don’t rough someone up for trying to get away, they catch him.
5. Honestly, how often are you called cracker?
well im one of them southern folks and if u ask me the confederate flag is apart of my heritage the confederate flag is one of the things i fly high and will never take down it does represent a time in the past with alot of hatred but once u think about it the south was just fighting for what we thought was right and thats all there is to it we were raised that way and there still are people full of hate ill admit i can be a rebel yeller and thats just fine with me its how i feel about some people and that will never change its just a matter of how you see the flag
TO RYAN,
THERE IS NOTHING WRONG OF BEING PROUD OF WHO YOU ARE AND WHERE YOU COME. NOW YOU SAY BLACK PEOPLE ROB, CARJACK AND SHOOT AT YOU BUT WHICH RACE STARTED THE ABUSE? BLACKS WERE ROBBED FROM THEIR LAND AND FAMILIES AND FORCED TO BE SLAVES. BLACKS WERE KILLED FOR BEING BLACK. WOMEN AND CHILDREN WERE RAPED AND FORCED TO BE THE MASTERS WHORE. AND WE HEAR THIS ALL THE TIME AND IT MAKES YOU SAD TO KNOW THIS IS WHAT YOUR ANCESTORS HAD TO GO THROUGH SO WE HAVE BLACK HISTORY MONTH (WHICH HAPPENS TO BE THE SHORTEST MONTH) TO TEACH ABOUT HOW WE OVER CAME SLAVERY AND THE PEOPLE OF ALL COLORS HELPED TO GIVE US A CHANCE AT A FARE LIFE. aND YOU ARE RIGHT THERE IS NO WHITE HISTORY MONTH BECAUSE ITS BEING TAUGHT ALL YEAR AROUND. THEY HAVE THE NEGRO COLLEGE FUND BECAUSE THERE ARE LESS BLACK PEOPLE GOING TO COLLEGE DUE TO LOW FUNDS. wHEN YOU SAY WHITE POWER ITS NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT, YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO LOVE YOURSELF BUT TO A CERTAIN POINT IT DOES SOUND A LITTLE RACES BECAUSE THE WAY THE MEDIA POTRAYS IT TO BE. wHEN WATCH MOVIES AND SOME1 SAYS THAT, ITS ALWAYS A MEMBER OF THE KKK OR A SKIN HEAD OR SOME RACIST GROUP SO IF A BLACK PERSON HEARS IT, WE THINK OF THOSE MOVIES AND WHEN A BLACK PERSON SAYS BLACK POWER i NEVER SAW IT IN A NEGATIVE WAY IT WAS TO UP LIFT THE PEOPLE AND THIS IS ALL ON TV. NOWADAYS THE TV IS WHAT TEACHES THE KIDS AND IN BLACK HISTORY MONTH WE WERE ONLY TAUGHT ABOUT 3 PEOPLE, MLK, MALCOMB X AND HARRIET TUBMAN AND WE NEVER GOT INTO ANYTHING ELSE. I SAW ON TV WHERE A WHITE GUY APPROACHED SOME BLACK GUYS WITH A RIFLE OUTSIDE OF A STORE FOR NO REASON AND 1 OF THE BLACK GUYS WRESTLED THE GUN AWAY FROM HIM AND CALLED THE POLICE. DO YOU KNOW WHEN THE POLICE ARRIVED THEY LOCKED UP THE BLACK GUY CHARGING HIM WITH STEALING THE RIFLE. RACISM WILL NEVER BE OVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So true, in so many ways. Thanks for standing up for what’s right.
I know in my heart the the flag we are discussing is an important symbol to be waved proudly when one feels the goverment has gone wrong, lost it’s way or in any other way impeded the liberty or progress of the pursuit of happiness and financial freedom in any way. This symbol says the government should tread lightly when considering laws that infringe upon the rights of all Americans to protect our , or other wise engae in the pursuits of liberty and freedom,, be it from undue taxes, or illigal immigration, this is the promise of the constitution. It also sends a message that we will not, and should not tolerate any acts of tyranny from any nation, religous sect, or racial group even if from within our own nation. If the flag makes people uncomfortable,,, to bad,, I get a little uncomfortable knowing that the lions share of my taxes goes to support intitlement programs that are out of control. Programs giving people who do not earn or produce value the right drain us all of our God given right to enjoy ALL the fruits of our own labors. I say wave it. I say To do other wise is to give greadence to those scared and lost little voices who need government programs and whorish politicians to validate their value and their petty little fearfull existences. I shall never let my self or my sons give in to the politically correct notion that there is any good reason to rob an American of his right to fly that flag.
WELL I BARELY KNOW HALF THE STUFF ABOUT THE WARS BACK THEN I CARE LESS, ITS BEFORE MY TIME AND YES I AM BLACK AND DONT CARE ABOUT NEITHER OF THE BULLSHIT. IM NOT A RACIST BUT I DO NOT LIKE OTHERS WHO ARE.MY GRANDMOTHER WAS A SLAVE IN MISSISSIPPI AND SHE ALWAYS TRIED TO TEACH ME HOW TO DISLIKE WHITE PEOPLE WHO SHE OTHER NAMES.I NEVER LISTEN TO HER AT 6 YEARS OLD I FELT IN MY HEART THAT IT WASNT RIGHT .BUT RACISIM ON BOTH SIDES IS A BUNCH OF BULLSHIT BECAUSE AT THE END WHITES MEN AND WOMEN IS KILLING EACH OTHER JUST AS WELL AS THE BLACKS AND WE SITTING UP HERE FIGHTING AND ARGUING ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED FUCKING YEARS AGO STOP PLAYING YOURSELF AMERICA IT AINT ABOUT WHAT COLOR WE ARE ITS ABOUT MONEY IT ALWAYS HAS AND ALWAYS WILL,AND FOR THE RECORD WE AS AMERICANS STUPID WE SITTING AT THE BOTTOM OF EDUCATION WHILE OTHER COUNTRIES IS THE TOP ,,,SO PLEASE GET OVER IT FUCK BLACK MAN OR WHITE MAN WE ALL TOGETHER NEED TO GET REAL…
I see your point of view. As a historian (an actual history major at the current moment) and a Southerner (one of those that talk funny 😉 I must say that I believe all sides should be represented. I am in favor of being able to display this flag… given that it is below the flag of the United States of America. Thats what liberty is all about, right? =)
I don’t have to agree with those who despise me because I refuse to ignore the Southern soldiers within my family. However, I respect every soldier… Southern and Northern and believe that they deserve respect.
Lately in a preservation course, I have been reading about the MLK assassination site in Memphis. My professor asked me about the topic of the Architecture of racial segregation… should we preserve old architecture that still has evidence of segregation? (other entrances, box offices, etc.) My response is OF COURSE! You cannot change history, or ignore it. You need to display these architectural differences, and look at it from a historiographical point of view. What was socially acceptable then is not now. It is now an example of progress in our society.
Every side should be preserved, and it should not be forgotten. This goes for any war or struggle… for if we erase it, they died/ struggled in vain.
I believe that the rebel flag does not represent racism. I admit that sometimes I feel a twinge of anger when i see it, but then I remember what it really represents. I agree that the confederate flag is a part of Southern heritage. It reminds Southerners of what they fought for. The Confederate flag is called the rebel flag because of the South’s rebellion against unrightful taxation.
After 143 years ignorance still rules this subject, EVERYONE has the RIGHT…BOUGHT BY BLOOD! no matter what race, to present their colors and be proud…I will not be told that I “can’t” fly a flag that I choose or the religion and the double-standard that has flooded the land has to be stopped! If it comes down to name-calling…then I guess I’m a “cracker” glad I didn’t type the “N” word….and wouldn’t if the slavery issue was studied and understood AND LET GO!!! unfortunatly my family had two helpers over 100 years ago, they prospered very well and I have many pictures of them…I say “unfortunatly” because now I have to pay for knowing them in a sense…I also realize that ignorance knows no color and is obvious everyday…but I will respect my family and friends from the south in every war….pow-mia
I believe that the flag in question actually represents liberty and rebellion against oppression, not the misrepresentation of oppression and slavery.
If one wishes to assign the stigma of slavery to a flag of the South, perhaps some of the “stars and bars” national flag variants would be a better choice? Perhaps a flag further North might work as well?
Regardless, the flag in question definitely holds a negative stigma for many people, which is truly unfortunate. History is filled with the true meaning of symbols being corrupted by evil people, and once that evil is eradicated, the victors often continue to embrace the evil association with the symbol. Thus the corruption continues, and what was good becomes evil. Even to the victors for good, they corrupt themselves by associating with, and knowingly or unknowingly, perpetuating a lie.
I hope that one day, good men and women will embrace truth and let go of their misguided perpetuation of corrupted symbols, allowing them to once again represent the truths behind them, and thus, by proxy, those which hold them and truth dear.
What about the 2000 to 10,000 black soliders that fought in Gray for the Confederate States of American, died, and or recieved pentions from their state for their service? Do they not deseve the respect that the the Stars and BArs repersent? I may not be able to relay my Southern Heritage to suit you but their is enough written on the subject to support a Southern Heritage vs. Hate subject. Dixie News has hundreds of Articles.
Thanks for the Thoughts,
Asking “What is Southern Heritage?” is the same as asking what African heritage is, or what Russian heritage is, or what French heritage is. Explain to me what black “culture” is. Is it rap and violence and oversensitivity and unemployment? Surely not. Is it beating drums and shaking spears? No. But there is certainly a black culture. Not being able to quantify or adequately describe a lifestyle does not prove its absence. We don’t hassle Cubans for displaying a flag representing Communism. You wouldn’t ask a Somolian to take down his flag because it might offend anti-war activists. We don’t tell Arab women that their hijabs represent sexism. Even though displaying any of these has no FUNCTIONAL purpose, it’s a cultural preference. And who are we as Americans to judge cultures? Freedom means acceptance. What doesn’t make sense is only being offended by one flag, and it’s one that represents part of America’s past. It doesn’t matter if you love or hate it; you have to accept it.
To answer one of the original questions – why do black people view the confederate battle flag differently than whites – I believe there are two explanations. First and foremost – ignorance on the part of black people. Not stupidity, but ignorance. They do not know the history, nor do most have a desire to learn it.
Secondly, there has been much negative influence thanks to the media, textbooks, and most of all, the white supremicists. It makes me sick to my stomach to think that these dumbass racists are desecrating one of the flags that my ancestors fought and died for. The KKK flies the US flag most of the time from what I hear, but nobody focuses on that. They constantly use the cross, but nobody focuses on that. And that’s where the media comes in – they make sure to shoot close up shots of the confederate flag every time the trailer park gets together to show their stupidity.
To the woman who said her grandmother was a slave, you are either really old, or your grandmother was able to live a very long life. Or both. Kudos. Slavery hasn’t been around since my Great Great Grandparents were little.
I’m sick of slavery being brought up as “the issue of the civil war”. Let’s look at this for a moment, shall we? Slavery was an American institution prior to the civil war. It had been protected time and time again by the Supreme Court. According to the Supreme Court, the only way you could do away with slavery was with an Amendment to the Constitution. What do we need for an amendment? A passing vote of 2/3 of congress (not to mention the ratification process). Consider how many states were in the Union in 1860 / 1861. There’s no way an Amendment would have passed considering the south made up well over 1/3 of the votes at that time. Wars are not fought for something you already have (like slavery), they are fought over something you want.
Not to mention – Tennessee, Arkansas, Louisiana, and Missouri changed their state constitutions prior to the end of the war. That’s right. When it looked bleak for the Union in the summer of 1864 and everyone thought the CSA would probably win, three states had already outlawed slavery! Tennessee followed suit in the beginning of 1865 (before the CSA was dead).
History books should also dive a little deeper into “Honest Abe’s” Emancipation Proclamation as well. After all, it only freed slaves IF THE SOUTH WOULD NOT SURRENDER! Meaning, if the CSA surrendered, they could keep their slaves. It was all about the Union to him. There’s actually a lot more to the Emancipation Proclamation that I will not go into that involves it also being used to prevent European support of the CSA.
I encourage everyone to do their own research and learn the truth about everything (including the thousands of black confederate soldiers). As one person already pointed out, ignorance of history is truly a tragedy!
Jon just because someone was raised up by there great grand parents doesn’t mean that person is very old. I was raised up by my great grand parents and I’m in my early thirties. My great grandfather lived to be 100yrs old.
The thing about the confederate flag is yes many people do use it as a racist symbol. I love the confederate because of the way it looks and in my mind it represents The confederacy not slavery. i do not believe slavery was right but i still think we should have seceded from the union. Many people in this world need a history lesson. The civil war was not even started over slavery it started because the north was economically fucking the south. Also there are very many black people who fought and died for the south willingly as well. MAny were not forced into it. The flag is only a racist symbol because people made it that way. everyone gives it that power. it was not started as one. If the confederate flag is a racist symbol was the union flag a symbol of black power or freedom??? i think not!!!!
I don’t support the flag so much as I resent the idea that we can change history. When we fly six flags over Texas, we need to remember all six flags, and not replace the confederate flag with a disclaimer. The flag to me represents that we remember history, for those that do not remember history are doomed to repeat it. I don’t support the slavery that is in our past, but I want my children to learn enough about slavery and it’s injustice so that they never treat people like that again.
So back to your question, what is important about the confederate flag. The imortance of the flag is the importance of studying and understanding our past, the good and the evil, so that we can prevent future evils. Too much of our country wants to change history so that it is more “correct”. I believe that we need to understand history accurately, so that the future will be more “correct”.
u wear ur X ill wear mine
I am your stereotypical southern white girl, with a few exceptions. I don’t tan, I roast. I spent a large portion of my childhood in a trailer. I learned how to fish and hunt as soon as I could walk. Yes, I did chew tobacco in high school, and yes, I can tear apart a Chevy 350 and rebuild it. I do a pretty good job of hiding my hickish accent until I get really pissed off. I did finish high school, and I’m working on my teaching degree. I am not a racist, though. I ended up marrying a dark-skinned Puertorican from the Bronx, and we have 4 beautiful children. I am a Roman Catholic, not Southern Baptist. Now that you know a bit about me, let me try to explain the reason rednecks love the Rebel flag. (FYI: Rednecks will NEVER be ashamed of calling themselves that because we got those red necks working long, hard hours. So trying to use it as an insult on a true redneck will do nothing but get them to smile and take it as a compliment.)
I proudly display the Rebel flag because I, and many like me, see it as just that, a symbol of freedom-loving people that felt the need to fight the government when their freedoms were threatened. I know that African Americans see it as a racist symbol, but most of us just see it as the REBEL flag. We wave it to symbolize our willingness to fight for our personal freedoms. We don’t like people telling us what to wear, where to work, how to speak, what to drive, where to live. We like driving trucks that are 4 feet off the ground, walking around barefoot, wearing cut-off’s, hunting, fishing, grilling, cussing, speaking our mind about whatever is pissing us off at the moment… and we have a severe dislike for all things government controlled. You will find that African American southerners have more in common with us than you might think.
Also, most southerners were NOT slave owners, and the Civil War was about so much more than slavery. And… You can put down rebel soldiers all you want, but most of those boys went to war because they had to. Why do you think there were so many deserters? Do you think they wanted to die so some rich bastard could keep his free labor force in tact and get richer? Do you think they were happy that they had to struggle to make ends meet when they could be earning a decent wadge on a plantation? Hell no! They fought because they had only two choices… Fight the war and have a chance at coming home alive, or be executed for treason. As in most wars throughout history, they had a clear and distinct patriotic purpose to start fighting because the southern government made it seem like their freedoms were being threatened. It wasn’t until later that they learned that corruption and the personal gain of the wealthy governed how the battles were fought. Thousands of young men and women died in that war because a bunch of selfish, arrogant men used them to stage the nation’s biggest pissing contest. Think about that before you start putting down all those families that fought and died in that war for being defenders of racisim. They were defending themselves. Only an ignorant, arrogant racist would say otherwise.
i belive that the confederate flag has a place in my background it symbolizezs what i stand fer and every thang i know i strongly beleive in it
to me it symbolizes patriotism my ancestors died to keep their beleifs alive and what they thought was right the fight fer slavery was not a fight fer slavery it was land owner ship and a way of life fer the southern man we were pushed around so long by the yankees that we got fed up with being screwed out of our livestock and crop basically our way of life it was all we grew up knowin and dammit we fought fer it you fight fer what you beleive in even if yer belief may be a little of base but there is no reason that now the opposite race should be pissed off that we still to this day fly our flag and wear our colors they do their thang we do ours its not a matter of racism or prediduce it is a strong beleif that will never die thats what i beleive in. Sure some people well mostly all people that aint from the south make comments bout the way we talk and dress our the way we act and do thangs but think fer a minute aint that racisit just sumpthin 2 thank about . written by taylor im 19 and this is my beleif
Tater: You are the kind of idiotic hillbilly that gives rednecks a bad name. Were you writing that way to make yourself look stupid on purpose, or did you just flunk your 8th year of the 6th grade? I’m surprised you even know how to operate a computer enough to post that. Show some pride. For cryin’ out loud… Stop making rednecks look like the uneducated, toothless morons that the Yankees take us for.
To everyone else: While my severely challenged fellow southerner is obviously in need of Spell Check, the basic premise was correct. As I mentioned in my previous post, the Civil War was about a lot more than just slavery. Anyone who has done extensive research into the Civil War, I mean more than what is published in elementary text books, would know that there were dozens of issues involved that had nothing to do with slavery. So, I beg you. Please, educate yourselves. Claiming that thousands of poor, southern boys died so that a few rich asses could keep their slaves is irresponsible and nothing more than a truly sad sign of historical ignorance.
Why are you guys complaining about the southerners loving their heritage but saying that they liked killing black people. But you guys are killing the western people
i wold like to say that i am not a racest but i do own a confederate flag and i feel that it stands for remembering all of those poor kids who fougth and died for a cause thay belived in which was not just slavery
(most confederate soldiers didnt even own slaves) but the cause of freedom.
Sir:
I have no earthly idea how my comment about the Battleflag was posted on your web site. Please, remove it immediately!! I am not Muslim and have absolutely no communications with your religion.
My comments were never sent to you and you have no right to post them.
I expect not to see anything the next time I check your site.
Thank you in advance for your cooperation!
Namuni H. Young
I hate Muslims
Sad that your eyes are so closed.
What did the South loose that was so great and worthy of remembrance? What part(s) of their culture was lost? What heritage must be protected and preserved?
I must start off by saying that I am not a southerner by raising, having been born in Arizona, but I am southern in my heart. I do not hate. There are thing about other cultures that I don’t like, just as there are things about mine that many others don’t like. I choose to ignore or stay clear of those, as you should. If my culture doesn’t set well with you, simply ignore it, don’t criticise
I do agree with the fact that the Rebel Flag has become a symbol of hate, just as the swastica has. Look deeply into the swasticas origan and meaning. I’m sure it still means something to someone despite the meaning that the Nazi’s gave it. The “Confederate” flag is a symbol of our culture and history. I do not attack you culture and history not do I try to erase it. I embrace it, and if there are elements of it that I disagree with, I simply ignore it, as you all should. Culture and history are what make you and I differant.
I believe that the Rebel Flag is a sign of hate and that’s how I was raised and so is my kids because i am a country gal who don’t really mind the whole Rebel Flag b/c Blacks carried it around and they helped kill their on kind so why does it matter????????
I am a Cherokee/Commanchee Indian from Texas! My people fought against the Union because they were taking our land and killing our people! Their were blacks that fought for the south of their own free will! My great ,great,grandfather fought beside a black man during the war. They stole a mule a rode back to Texas together. Thier was a standing order that If the Union caught any freed blacks fighting for the south, they were to be shot on site. The slavery issue was not introduced into the war until early 1863. I fly the confederate flag used by my people during the civil war to honor their fight for freedom against oppresion! I dare any blacks to call me a racist for this act! People need to read the real history , not this so called revisionist history to appease a certain race of people! Education, Education,Education about history! Those who dont listen to history are doomed to repeat it!!!!!!!!!
I Only have one thing to say do any of you remember a few years ago when they tried to take the confederate flag out of the Mississippi state flag. Even the black people stood up and fought for the flag to stay because it is part of thier fucking heritage too i dont get what you peoples problem is with the damn flag its not racism if it was then all these states that fly the rebel flag in thier state do you really think there would be black people living in those states HELL NO its not racism do some fuckin research
My family is originally from the south. I have a confederate flag as the background to my phone. However, I do try to avoid flaunting in front of my black friends because I am aware that it makes for an awkward situation. However, I do not like the flag because of its “Southern Heritage” or whatever.
The Confederacy broke off from the North not completely because of the slave issue. Both sides agreed that slavery had to come to an end. The conflict came when the North insisted all slaves be removed immediately and shipped off to a special place in Liberia set aside for freed slaves. In essence, they would have not gained much freedom.
The South demanded a slower withdrawal and that slaves be given a choice to work as servants. Cotton still had to be harvested, and the slaves had been doing it all their lives.
Fights started as the North pushed for a controlling national government and the South wanted each state to be able to choose. The North didn’t consider the effects that withdrawing every single slave in a short amount of time would do. The economy would be devastated and millions of slaves would have no work and no home.
I support the Confederate Flag because I believe states should have more rights. Different states have different issues. I don’t flaunt it because I am some redneck. I have it just like other people have political bumer stickers.
For those who say that the american government had every right to fight and put down the south when it rose, well, they did have every right. The south also had the right to fight and rise and suceed from the union. It was and is still legal to do this. Any american can rise against and the government. THe south was only trying to preserve the thought and the principle of state rights that our forefathers set down. Some people do not like the conderate flag, and everyone is open and encouraged to express their opinion. But when people try to ban the confederate flag from school and other places they are going agianst the first amendment that this country was based on. It is and will always be a part of our history wether people like it or not.
In school kid are still being taught that the civil war is about slavery and that is why their is such a negative view towards the confederate flag.
We never really like to be reminded of the divisions of the past. With the Battle Flag being such a polarizing issue, it is clearly not settling down any time soon.
To be supportive of the flag to me is to support a states right to choose on policies and not have the federal government dictate everything. That was what was lost in Southern heritage. I know that states did not lose all rights but the Civil War was a turning point.
Now opposing the flag means standing up for the freedoms of countless individuals held in slavery. And I would like to note that many slaves were freed by owners long before the war ended. In my opinion, slavery should have never happened, yet it did and grew so large a part of society not enough people believed they could do without it.
But ALL individuals need to have the freedom of choice. To be able to decide for themselves what is important. Where to live, What to wear, Who to associate with. Which flag they fly.
But know that there will always be some that choose a different opinion. And we must be able to give them their space, respect their choice and still live peaceably. All freedom is threatened when one freedom is restricted. And ones consuming hatred only restricts your own freedom.
Hello. I think you get the hits you do because of the comic. When you type “Confederate flag” into Google images this comic comes up in the first page.
That being said people can go on and on about heritage and diversity, but at the end of the day the Confederate flag is a symbol used by white supremacists groups and that’s the connotation people see right away. If these people have a problem with a misinterpretation of the flag’s meaning then they should go to these groups and tell them to stop using it. We know this won’t happen so as long as hate groups hold the Confederate flag near and dear to their hearts it will forever stand for hatred, bigotry and racism.
I’m white and I’m from Texas and nobody my family cared for the Confederate flag. We all know what it means so as I said if these people want it to mean something else go have your beef with the supremacists groups. It’s their fault the flag’s meaning has been tainted.
Hey Buddy,muslims are the wrong set of people to start anything about the south.I have been to your precious muslim countries.Nowhere is inequality more evident then in Iraq,Iran,Indonesia.Women are treated like what property!Get to the back of the bus woman Saudia Arabia example.As for being black not my fault.Look at the history of Africa that whole continent has been dealing in human slavery for thousands of years just watched a special on the SAHARA and it ancient peoples.Jesus it was discussed over and over about the slavery issue.If not for john wilkes boothe ol abe lincoln was going to give every one of ya’ll a free trip back to your mother land.The flag is mine like your koran is yours.Their are no 72 virgins in heaven waiting on you either.
I understand the argument but truth be told it is only the bad stories you here of slavorie in the South. Yes some salves were treted badly but for the most part slave owners took care of there slaves. Although it is a sad chapter in American history that one person could buy another as property, This is not at all what the Confederate flag stands for. It was a way of life it had meaning and purpose the Confederate flag dose not stand for slavery it stands for people who stood together shoulder to shoulder to proudly proclaim their way of life. I know,I know that way of life included slaves but in this world you can still find slavery and although it may be called by a different name, any time you have one person or a group of people depressing another, there is slavery. If a person is free then, free that person should be to speak his or her mind. I say Long live the South and some people may want to do me harm because I say it. Well are they any different from a slave owner. Any person who excerpts their authority over an other to break a persons will is creating a relationship not unlike that of slave and slave owner. I’m sure that this debate will go on for years but try to remember that the south gave us Meany things that we could not live without today, and is now and I pray forever more will be a culture that radiates throughout.
As someone born and raised in the south (Tallahassee, Florida), I honestly don’t understand the whole confederate flag thing. The civil war is over, the separatists lost, and we are all currently citizens of the United States of America. There is no place, except for within the bounds of historical context, of this flag.
Sadder still, I have moved to Canada, and seen this flag several times. And I can tell you, in all sincerity, that those who wear the confederate flag in Canada are not interested in heritage, but are, in fact, racists. So where do the southerners stand, really?
wat does slavery have to do with the rebel flag any way it was over dagum taxes. slaver wasn’t an issue until Lincon made it one and then it was abolished in the north after it was in the south.
I and many others perceive the crescent moon as a symbol of hatred should we abolish it too along with the confederate battle flag?
Simply put,
the Rebel Flag is a Symbol of American History…
Just as the Nazi Flag is a Symbol of World History…
One may assosiate the flag with many things,
that does not make it Evil or Racist…
Incidently,
(All Racisim Aside)
with all the Black Oranizations, BlackT.V, NAACP,
and the Freedom Blacks have to Chastize Whites these days,
if the Rebel Flag is the Universal Symbol for Whites
then I’m All For It!
Something or Someone should be Backing the White Culture…
Hey.. I understand this issue.. My children’s school as banned the rebel flag and for goodness sakes hoodies. My son likes the Rebel Flag and not because he is racist (he is only 14, and one of his friends is black). But I think that kids like the idea of the rebel flag because they #1 think it is a cool looking flag and #2 they themselves are fighting for something.
The author asks what is Southern culture or heritage. It is simple, because it is the same as all other culture or heritage. It is the simply, the way that a certian group is raised with their traditions, religion, values and the things that they fight for which is something that we all fight for every day of our lives to make things better according to our own belief. That is hard for kids to understand because they see parents as being mean for not letting them go with the crowd.
As for the Rebel Flag, I don’t know that they know all that it stands for or have been taught they way some have. But as a child of the 70 and 80s I was raised on the music group Alabama and the Dukes of Hazzard and it was and is the rebellion against something that isn’t right or to put it another way it is an expression of being free to make decisions hopefully for the right way. The Rebel Flag is just like some of the liteture of today ( it is misunderstood). Some people think that the Harry Potter Books are bad, that they go against the Bible. They are just books and a person can take or believe what they want from any book or comment, but they are fantasy and some do have a good lesson in them. I don’t beleive I can do magic because of the books…. it is just an escape from reality. First find out why someone is wearing or displaying a Rebel Flag and as said most of the time it is a very innocent reason.
The Confederate Flag was initially a battle flag of the Civil War in which many Southern lives were lost. That is all of the cultural memory it represents. It is deep in family heritages and personal losses. The comic is funny but not very true (post war backlash not withstanding). Confederate troops weren’t fighting Blacks but White Union troops and they were not fighting for slavery but to leave the Union due to inadequate representation in Congress. As a tactic to weaken the South Lincoln proclaimed only the slaves in seceded states free in the Union if they could get there, while Union slaves were not freed. There was Slavery in the North albeit less prevalent. Some Blacks left US for Liberia because they wanted there own “State” like Southerners. US gov assisted them not attacked them. Granted they were not trying to take land with them.
It’s a symbol of hate. end of the story.
U know what fuck all the niggers of usa because they are all just a bunch of motherfuckers that think they are hard because of their pigment
Stir up ole’ shit and it’s bound to stink. I know the history behind the confederate flag… regardless of the fact that there were black confederate soldiers, truth of the matter is, neither the union nor the confederacy gave a shit about the slaves, no matter which side they fought on. They were stuck in the middle. And to make excuses about parading around taking pride in a racist society/institution is just plain asinine. Like some white folk are so fond of telling blacks when the slavery issue comes up, get over it already, you loss!!!
Living i Norway a few tousand miles away from the north – south debate, I have done some reading on the topic of the American civil war. My conclusion is that this war had nothing to with slavery and rights of the coloured amercans. It was a matter of good old fasioned imperialism. President Lincoln saw the complete colaps of the union if the rebel states got away with it. If memory serves me right Lincold did not even mention slavery in his speeches before thewar had lasted for quite a while.
To me the rebel flag symbolices resistance against oppression. Waving the Confederate flag is sort of spitting the power in the eye. In Norway it is considered very politically uncorrect to flt this flag, and that is the one and only reason for me to do so occasionally. I believe it is of vital importance to be a bit politically uncorrect at times!
Flying the Confederate flag is also amon some people a symbol of ounderground rock music. It has absolutely nothing to do with racism.
I do understand that the flag certainly spurs different feelings in the USA. But there are those in Europe who flyes the confederate flag as a demonstratiion of anti Bush feelings. If the South had won the war, Bush would not be president today, and the world might have been a better place to live in! ( Writing this I guess I will never be allowed to vist the USA, but who cares! )
So some certain warm summer nights I fly the Confederate Flag, drink Southern Comfort and play Southern blues loud on my stereo! I allwas invite all my neighbours to awoid complaints!
To the guy who runs this blog:
I unwillingly sent this comment a bi to early. I ment to rectify certain mis-spellings and to appologise for any lingvistic errors as I am a Norwegian national and English / American is not my native language. ;-))
It’s a flag that reminds us from the south of sitting on the front porch drinking ice tea with a shotgun in hand. It’s there to remind us of how much we, that live below the Mason Dixon, love the way the south used to, and will hopefully continue to be. Unfortunately there is only a little bit left of the old south way; which has more to do with chivalry, a slow pace of life and pride that your ancestors stood up to a tyrannical president and government than it does racism or the oppression of blacks. I understand that the confederate flag brings up negative feelings in those who don’t fully understand it and seem to only associate it with those negative things, but I can’t let that ever stop me from showing off with pride. To put it in perspective…the native Americans were enslaved, killed off, moved out of their land and pretty much got culturally raped by those flying the flag of the United States of America…I wonder what kind of feelings those with a Native American ancestry might hold to our stars and stripes? Many flags fly over many nations and each one has a history behind it, always a mix of good and bad things, but you cant take the good without the bad or the bad without the good. Maybe this gives new insight to some?
THE CONFEDERATE FLAG IS PART OF SOME PEOPLES UPBRINGING AS IT WAS MINE TO ME I WAS TAUGHT IT MENT OUR FREEDOM AS SOUTHERNERS TO HUNT ,FISH ,AND DO IT HOW WE DO IT IN THE SOUTH I WAS ALSO RAISED TO TREAT EVERY ONE AS HUMANS AS WE ARE THE SAME ………ITS JUST THAT ALOT OFTHE BLACK POEPLE I HAVE MET DO NOT GIVE A COUNTRY GUY LIKE MYSELF A CHANCE TO SEE WHAT WE ARE ALL ABOUT SO IT GOES BOTH WAYS
Todd says the South wasn’t about oppression or racism, but why then did it take another 100 years for Civil Rights for African Americans in the South? And that Civil Rights Laws got pretty tough opposition from most Southern states (remember Gov. Wallace?).
I have a feeling Southern hospitality was (is?) handed out if you were White, but not if you were black, olive skinned, or had long hair, etc.
I may have agreed with Todd that that this attitude has “Gone with the Wind” but as I type this a neighbor here in Ft Lauderdale has a confederate Flag flying on a pole at the bottom of his garden. Not the Florida Flag or the Stars & Stripes. WHy would he do that? Then it came to me in a flash Ok “I get it!”
Well I’m conservative and was pretty sure I was voting for McCain but now I’m voting for Obama because of that neighbour.
BTW: I’m white, and I deeply appreciate McCains service to the country. Why? My son is in US Army Airborne and has served 1 year + tours in IRAQ and Afghanistan so I feel the anguish when he is on active duty and respect what he and all the other Soldiers, Sailors & Airmen do for us.
Ive got a huge flag in my room and i fly one outside every damn day. i dont care about ignorant faggots who get pissed off about it. im in school and they teach us that the civil war was about slavery and implying that the south was bad and the north was good but that is not true. if anyone wants to get pissed off about it and complain they should do so some fuckin research!
A lot of people I know in this day and age [including myself] use the Rebel flag as, well, a symbol of rebellion. Yeah, maybe in the past it was associated with racial pride, but times change. Not all flag owners are supremacist hate mongers. I don’t even think it comes back to a sense of southern pride for everyone [and don’t ask anyone what that means, because no one really knows] just the given right to rebel against what you think is wrong, whether it’s the government, industry, or media.
Hey I am a white male and I support the Flying of and or public display of the confederate flag because I beleive it honors the fallin soldiers, men, women, and children black and white that fought and lived and fought and died for it and the just cause that it stood for. I am not racist I dont beleive the confederate flag stands for slavery racism or rebellion against the government. the confederate flag never flew over The Confederate States Of America it was a battle flag. I think to get a better idea of this issue and to help people that are interested in it I would recommend reading the book The South Was Right by Walter Donald Kennedy and James Ronald Kennedy its an authoritative and documented study of the mythology
sorry i sumitted early by accident as i was saying the book The South Was Right is an authoritative and documented study of the mythology behind civil war history and its lasting affects on contemporary society. I believe this book will help people understand the question of the flag and other issues along the same line. its truthfull and documented with references. although I beleive this book and what it says this is a controversial issue and it should be read with an open mind if you are easily offended.
The book I mentioned The South Was Right can be found on Amazon.com, google seach or visit KennedyTwins.com
As a Southern Jew native to Tennessee,I don’t see the flag as offensive nor one of hate. It’s in the eye of the viewer. You have to remember that there were blacks and Jews in Confederate service during the time of 1861-1865. Anyone recall Judah Benjamin?..a Jew. I have many Confederate ancestors and I am proud of their service. I do wear the flag but if one of my black friends or anyone else politely asks me to cover it up or remove it,I do so out of respect. You have to also take into account that every ethnic group and faith in the South at that time was found in Confederate Gray. There were Generals of many backgrounds as well,Cleburne (Irish) Benavides(Mexican) etc. I am a Civil War re-enactor with the 26th North Carolina and have not once had comments made towards me by anyone. I’m proud to re-enact as a Southern soldier. So whether ya like the flag or hate it,it’s best to just let people take the Battle Flag as they see it and leave others to their own opinion. Shalom
Oh for Heaven’s sake! The Confederate battle flag has been co-opted by hate groups as a symbol of their idiotic opinions, by blacks as a focal point for their resentment and a source of regional pride by proud Southerners for the past 140 years. In other words, it’s a symbol of different things to different folks. It always will be. Some of my ancestors were non-slaveholding Confederate soldiers who (supposedly) rode with Bedford Forrest. When I see the flag I’m reminded of them and the courage my family displayed during and after the war. If blacks want to believe the flag stood (and stands today) as an approval for slavery/segregation, that’s their privilege and I’m too busy to disabuse them of their misunderstanding, though I understand how they arrived at it. If some white people view Southern Culture (past and/or present) as an American version of Camelot, I say let them have their fantasy, too. But the time for fixing blame for slavery and segregation in America just ended. The election of Barack Obama has proven, once and for all, that equality exists in this nation as much as it can exist anywhere. Looking for an excuse to take offense (over anything) is part of the entitlement mentality and soooooo uncool now. Affirmative action worked. Now let’s get rid of it and get about the business of repairing the rest of America’s faults.
I think the flag thing is understandable. I want to make it clear that I am not racist in any way before I make this comment. It represents a bygone way of life to me. Whether slavery was right or wrong,it was a significant economic investment for those people, and it represented their lordly, noble, planter status. The planter era was the golden age of wealth and prosperity (granted, it was from the sweat of someone else’s brow), for the south, that was lost in the Civil War and Reconstruction. Planters went bankrupt and the south was too. there was no income,no industry, no railroads, and the north was rather unsavory to the south. It was a distant memory to many of the good years, unfortunately it was soiled by southern extremism of KKK, where many blacks derive the racist sentiment. the majority of the south probably would not cater to such things. it was the same with the swastika. It was an indian sacred symbol of good luck, but the nazis used it as their national emblem and the jewish now find it racist. Again I want to emphasize I am not racist in any way, but one has to think of how these people lived. Slavery was money and tradition, and it allowed them to live an extravagant way of life, and then comes five years of hell and they are all reduced to pauperism. this does not excuse the various atrocities toward blacks, but it short changes and dishonors all the people who look upon it as a symbol of their heritage to flat out call it purely a symbol of hatred.
ok really its just a sign of where we come from no different then some guy from Jamaica comin to america and has a jamaican flag on his winow or car and this thing about it reminds blacks of slavery well “the white man” got the idea from the blacks they had slaves and sold them to us then complained about slavery WHAT A BUNCH OF HYPOCRITES it heritage not hate its about bein proud of what you fought for and thats INDEPENDANCE
So I like how you stereotyped the south which is something african americans complain about all the time. Way to be a hypocrite. Anyway, about 280,000 men either died or were wounded for that flag. The South was out numbered and has fewer supplies which is a main reason why they lost. The rebel flag honors the few that stood against many. I believe that is the southern heritage. 80 percent of southerners didn’t own slaves. What were they fighting for? The freedom from Union oppression and taxes. You really don’t think that if the south had won that the slaves wouldn’t be freed anyway? Come on, it may have taken longer, but more than likely they would be freed. The Union’s victory just hastened it a little bit. Long story short: Rebel flag= symbol of when few standing against many.
Robert Salaam,
You ask what is southern heritage and culture? And, you claim to have not been givin a solid answer as to what they are. Let’s start by defining each of them
Heritage: something that comes or belongs to one by reason of birth
Culture:1 the sum total ways of living built up by a group of human being and transmitted from one generation to another.
2:the behaviors and beliefs characteristic of a PARTICULAR social,ethnic or age group.
3:a PARTICULAR form or stage of civilization of that of a certain nation or period.
With that information at hand I do belive that you have gotten an answer. It is just not the one you want to hear. You also ask why blacks view the Confederate(Rebel) flag differently than whites. Reason being society and political veiws. But the question you ask that really gets me is:
What did the South loose that was so great and worthy of remebrance? How about all the lives lost from BOTH sides. Fighting for what was their belief to be right. Why is that that not worthy enough for you to bere rememberance?
I believe you have read some or even most of the statements above but I do not believe you have listened to them. You ask a question and then fall into stereotypical views of Southerners. What question(s) are you really trying to ask?
I would like a resonse please and I am sure other fellow Southerners would as well
Thank you
Culture (from the Latin cultura stemming from colere, meaning “to cultivate”)[1] generally refers to patterns of human activity and the symbolic structures that give such activities significance and importance. Cultures can be “understood as systems of symbols and meanings that even their creators contest, that lack fixed boundaries, that are constantly in flux, and that interact and compete with one another”.[2]
Culture can be defined as all the ways of life including arts, beliefs and institutions of a population that are passed down from generation to generation. Culture has been called “the way of life for an entire society.”[3] As such, it includes codes of manners, dress, language, religion, rituals, games, norms of behavior such as law and morality, and systems of belief as well as the art.
that is your wikipedia answer for culture.
Our heritage is what is passed down to us from the preceding generations. For the southerner rich man it is a way of life taken from the English Cavalier during the time of Oliver Cromwell, for the poor southerner, it was a life of farming or tailoring or those occupations that were passed down from their Irish, English, German, or whatever European background that they came from. The South was predominately an Agrarian society before and at the time of the civil war, we were not so much concerned with the industrial revolution as our northern brothers were. Yes, we had large cities just as they did, but for the most part the south was made up of small towns, farms, homesteads, and for the rich– plantations. Ours was a slower pace of life, not the big northern cities where everybody back then as well as today run around with their heads cut off like chickens. Some but not all of southern society was modeled after the English courts and other European societies of the time. This is also the heritage and legacy that we carry on as well as the not so glamorous but needful farmers, tailors, farriers, tanners, and many other occupations. Our heritage is also, unfortunately a heritage of war as well as peace. The Revolutionary War, the War of 1812, The Mexican War, and the Civil War. For all those that don’t understand and still see the Dividing line of Mason and Dixon, The North and South have the same heritage. Although some will deny it and some embrace it.
What is Southern culture? It’s actually hard to explain. One of my favorite responses to yankees is “you’re not Southern, you wouldn’t understand.” It’s true. Being Southern is a state of mind, per se. It’s a birthright. “American by birth, Southern by the grace of God!” If I had to describe Southern culture, I guess I’d talk about manners/being polite, eating grits, drinking sweet tea, sitting on the front porch, respecting others, old time religion, elvis, robert e lee/stonewall jackson, the pronunciation of words (july = jew lie), accents, traditional conservatism, etc. As for the flag, I believe it represents Southern culture because, in my mind, it encompasses all the things aforementioned, and more, mainly because Southern people have adopted it as their “official” symbol, and therefore it represents the South and it’s culture.
It’s a symbol of the South, present, past and future. The past. The flag was flown in battle. It flew over Southern armies fighting an enemy determined to preserve its empire, and deny the South its constitutional right of secession. The Southern armies were almost always outgunned, and outmanned. So, to many Southerners, the flag continues to be a symbol of defiance, and of the underdog. The South was forced to remain in the “union” just as the soviet “union” used force to subjugate its neighbors. If we had won, we would have been able to go our own way, and have a true republic. If a culture is stripped of it’s history/past, then what really does it have?
The present. Confederate flags, monuments, school names, etc. are under constant fire from the pc crowd. The confederate flag is a symbol of the politically incorrect Southerner, those who wish to stand up against others attempting to strip the South of its individuality and history. It stands as a symbol of resistance against those who would denigrate our paat, and therefore our present.
The future. Globalism is takng a heavy toll on cultures and languages all over the world. Places and peoples are losing their uniqueness. Those who stand in the way are labeled paranoid or out of touch. I, for one, like going to different areas and experiencing different things. I believe Southerners don’t want to lose that which is unique to the South, or that which is considered Southern. We’re a proud people. We don’t want to be like everyone else. To us, the flag represents our culture, and what makes it unique, and therefore, must be preserved. If all of which I’ve written makes not sense to you, then I’ll have to defer to what I said earlier. If you’re not Southern, you wouldn’t understand.
Another excellent answer that went ignored.
Lots of good comments and of course the required amount of ingnorance. Just as dixieboy 74 says, it is a Southern thing that yankees and racist wouldn’t understand. I’m a southron and a Tejano. Thats twice saying my heritage is a state of mind and something only a Southerner or a Texan could possibly understand or appreciate. I have dual cultures as part of that heritage. It is the kind of thing which has the 1st National and Texas Republic flags placed prominatly on my truck without any apology. It is the state of mind that upon seeing a Confederate flag or Texas flag (don’t see many of those anymore since I live in Virginia Beach) on another vehicle or flown from someones house there is something of a feeling of common ground, an understanding of that other person on a certain level. We may look different and in fact be very diffiernt but we are allies, we understand the cause.
I am and shall always be a Confederado. I say this because as a good Southron I have a healthy distrust of the Federal Government. I don’t stand for being told what or how to think, what to do, how to feel, and especially to hear sentences that start with “you people” as I usually hear from yankees particually come here’s. Southerners know what I’m talking about.
The flag is our symbol of defiance and to a certain point defines who we were and who we now are. After all many of the Founders and their ideals were of the South. We are not politically correct and will never bow to those who are. We are independent of thought and love our independence and we will fight for it. We are wary of an ever powerful and intrusive government. We respect people in what is now considered the old fashioned way. We are traditionalist regarding our religion, our language, our families and our region. We don’t forget the past for better or for ill, we try to do the best for all at present and want to have a better future.
I didn’t learn about Lincolns War until college and up until then all I knew was the northern version. I see my Hispanic culture and upbringing as being far closer to Southern culture than to yankee culture. I have been up north during my naval career and found most yankees to be an unpleasant bunch. In my experience yankees were fairly ingnorant of the south or her people and veiwed us very stereotypically. Even worse being Hispanic and Southern. They were quite racist on that account.
I suppose one could say the flag of the Confederacy is a symbol of a heritige of defiance and independence on a personal and local level and one of regionalism (states rights) at a higher level. Our culture is more traditionalist and locally oriented coming from agrarian roots. We know that with our rights also go responsiblity, something that seems to have been lost on some. The Lincolnite war may have been lost on the battlefield but the culture war goes on. On that front, one can say the South was right and not defeated since we are still defiant and still fighting to this day.
As for the blacks and how they feel, I wouldn’t even try to answer that one for obvious reasons. I’d just say flag or no flag, past present and future for those born and bred in Dixie, they are Southerners too whether they like it or not.
It’s not about racism, it’s about secession, slavery was on the decline in the south already, and there were black slave owners across the south, ranging from ones who owned loved ones they couldn’t afford to free, to others who owned their own plantations. Slavery was an afterthought for the north, lincoln was known internationally as a tyrant, just look at papers from europe during that time!
Next, check out lysander spooner and his essay “no treason” which was written in 1867, he makes the point that the north “freed the slaves” by enslaving every man and woman in the south to a government that they did not want, and would (clearly) be forced to accept, how is that okay?
THAT is why I fly my confederate flag, screw racism, racism is for fascists.
OK here is my 2 cents worth on the subject, take it or leave it. The “Rebel” flag is considered heritage by most white southerners because that is what they have been told, “it is part of your heritage” without an understanding of what “Southern Pride” is and why the confederate flag is the symbol for that pride.
The southern people are an abundantly proud people as a whole, and for the most part they are very resistant to change in the status quo. The Confederate flag is the utmost symbol of the resistance to change and the unwillingness to give up pride, be it right or wrong. The Rebel flag was carried into every battle of the civil war and was on the front line of the defence of the southern peoples way of life, their morals and their culture. Today the flag still stands for those belifes in the southern people, and most of us still fly or flags proudly for that reason. Now you have to understand that we don’t fly the flag as a symbol of hate or supremacy, because our belifes have changed or evolved since the civil war, well most of us have, there are extremest in every classification of peoples, ie. Peckerwoods, ariyans, KKK.
Those of us who still proudly raise our banner are hailed as raceist, rednecks, white trash, and so forth, when in reality we are not. We are proud of the southern ideals that we were raised with, such as fight for what you belive in, love with all your heart, and make the world a better place for your kids through love and discipline. These are the things that the Rebel flag represent today just like they did back then. I leave you with a quote my great grandfather told me,” never back down on what you belive in, cause it is better to be hated for whats in your heart, than to hate what is in your heart.”
omg im in la and i must say im proud of my flag because (read ner jemels)and it shows my pride to be a southerner WITH GUNS 🙂 PS MY FAV IS SKS W/BAYONET 🙂
Hello all,
Two things…don’t forget that the vast majority of slaves were white, and they were treated infinitely worse than black slaves.
And that many Indians, Jews and Blacks fought for the Confederacy.
All I have to say on this issue is that what happened to the freedom of speech and expression that are country so greatly speaks of?? A white man with a Rebel flag must be a racist now a days because the war is over. We lost so does that mean that we dont have the right to remember our family that died along time ago for a cause that they belived in enough to die for. What do you want us to do to remember them you f***ing remember them? What do you Jiggaboos do to remember all of your spear chucking relatives? Huh?? The same relatives that sold you to us after two troops of you porch monkeys fought. Well I still see you jungle bunnys running around with you Rasta flags and you dirty f***ing dreads speaking of one love and one heart then you f***ing condemn a person you don’t even know just because he has a Rebel flag on his t-shirt, his car, or his house. You know what I say to you people f*** you and if you offended by anything Ive said then good go swing from a tree (and by your neck not your monkey arms) because you offended me when you question what my family live and died for.
Let me inform you why the confederate flag is asymbol of herritge. It was the BATTLE flag the troops carried. It symbolizes rebbelion from the north. The south succeded because Linclon was elected and the north was making unfair laws and taxes on the south. THe KKK gives abad name to all southeners. The bible says all men are created equal.
The stars and bars represent freedom from abusive authority. In Georgia some people wanted the flag changed because they were ignorant. Now we have the National Confederate flag not the Battle flag.
ok guys lets get this straight- zach = fucking retarted idiot ( sorry zach it’s just the truth)
ok noone here seems to get that slavery was WRONG! owning another human being in anyway (other than the way i just owned zach) is WRONG.
the people that defend the flag what ever. just don’t try to make excuses for it.
they fought to seperate themselves and become a seperate country.
with slaves.
not because they thought it was the right thing to do.
but because they were too damn lazy to do the work themselves
they bit off more than they could chew and without the slaves to help them chew they would ultimately end up throwing away all the things they payed for with out slaves.
confederate flag is a symbol of the south trying to seperate into a hell for slaves on earth as far as im concerned and i doubt zach has any friends. and i bet his red neck parents fail at parenting.
lol zach just like goku ( an azn name based on an azn novel) should be white?
you stupid retart gtfo the internet we dont need more idiots i thought after George Bush that would be the end of it but aparently there is always an idiot standing in line to take his place point proven by zach
johnny Reb we only condemn racist idiots like you we dont need a stupid cracker spitting racist coments that are so old they make your fugly ass mom look like beonce.
Johnny Red i hope when judgment day comes you burn in hell. hey look at it this way. you will be black too!
and i guess we have the same spear chucking relatives because guess what DUMB ASS all races orginated from africa aka first race was black
in essence im your superior not because of race… no but because you red neck ass just got owned with facts by a 13 year old. you dumb peice of shit.
I truly hope you burn
Hi,
Love the site btw. Being from the South myself and being a historian I have to admit that this is a great debate. There is way too much emphasis placed on this issue though. Lets go back in history and look at the statistics. First of all the current American flag, which has a few moderations to it, flew over slavery also. The confederate flag gets a lot of unwarrented flaq over the slavery issue when in actuality there were almost as many slaves in the northern (union) states. I will post the statistics in a few. Another thing people tell us in the south is for us to quit fighting the war over and over again. I think we have quit. When African Americans and others bring these complaints up then they are actually digging down in the anals of the history and trying to bring the war back. Its like being on a gossip board or something similar. Everyone will be arguing and fighting then it will stop and everyone is at peace again. Then someone will come back on there and say “oh what about….?” and the fight insues. This is all unnecessasary. The south has put the war of Yankee agression, the War of Southern Oppression, the Civil War, or the War Between the states (don’t matter what you call it, its a war) out of thier minds and then an outsider comes in and rips what herritage we have out of our grips and then says we have to get past all the hate and let it go. It is difficult to let go when no one is letting it go.
http://sunsite.utk.edu/civil-war/reasons.html
http://www.slavenorth.com/connecticut.htm
http://www.slavenorth.com/slavenorth.htm
“The effects of the New England slave trade were momentous. It was one of the foundations of New England’s economic structure; it created a wealthy class of slave-trading merchants, while the profits derived from this commerce stimulated cultural development and philanthropy. –Lorenzo Johnston Greene, “The Negro in Colonial New England, 1620-1776,” p.319.
Whether it was officially encouraged, as in New York and New Jersey, or not, as in Pennsylvania, the slave trade flourished in colonial Northern ports. But New England was by far the leading slave merchant of the American colonies.
The first systematic venture from New England to Africa was undertaken in 1644 by an association of Boston traders, who sent three ships in quest of gold dust and black slaves. One vessel returned the following year with a cargo of wine, salt, sugar, and tobacco, which it had picked up in Barbados in exchange for slaves. But the other two ran into European warships off the African coast and barely escaped in one piece. Their fate was a good example of why Americans stayed out of the slave trade in the 17th century. Slave voyages were profitable, but Puritan merchants lacked the resources, financial and physical, to compete with the vast, armed, quasi-independent European chartered corporations that were battling to monopolize the trade in black slaves on the west coast of Africa. The superpowers in this struggle were the Dutch West India Company and the English Royal African Company. The Boston slavers avoided this by making the longer trip to the east coast of Africa, and by 1676 the Massachusetts ships were going to Madagascar for slaves. Boston merchants were selling these slaves in Virginia by 1678. But on the whole, in the 17th century New Englanders merely dabbled in the slave trade.
Then, around 1700, the picture changed. First the British got the upper hand on the Dutch and drove them from many of their New World colonies, weakening their demand for slaves and their power to control the trade in Africa. Then the Royal African Company’s monopoly on African coastal slave trade was revoked by Parliament in 1696. Finally, the Assiento and the Treaty of Utrecht (1713) gave the British a contract to supply Spanish America with 4,800 slaves a year. This combination of events dangled slave gold in front of the New England slave traders, and they pounced. Within a few years, the famous “Triangle Trade” and its notorious “Middle Passage” were in place.
Rhode Islanders had begun including slaves among their cargo in a small way as far back as 1709. But the trade began in earnest there in the 1730s. Despite a late start, Rhode Island soon surpassed Massachusetts as the chief colonial carrier. After the Revolution, Rhode Island merchants had no serious American competitors. They controlled between 60 and 90 percent of the U.S. trade in African slaves. Rhode Island had excellent harbors, poor soil, and it lacked easy access to the Newfoundland fisheries. In slave trading, it found its natural calling. William Ellery, prominent Newport merchant, wrote in 1791, “An Ethiopian could as soon change his skin as a Newport merchant could be induced to change so lucrative a trade as that in slaves for the slow profits of any manufactory.”[1]
Boston and Newport were the chief slave ports, but nearly all the New England towns — Salem, Providence, Middletown, New London – had a hand in it. In 1740, slaving interests in Newport owned or managed 150 vessels engaged in all manner of trading. In Rhode Island colony, as much as two-thirds of the merchant fleet and a similar fraction of sailors were engaged in slave traffic. The colonial governments of Massachusetts, Rhode Island, New York, New Jersey, and Pennsylvania all, at various times, derived money from the slave trade by levying duties on black imports. Tariffs on slave import in Rhode Island in 1717 and 1729 were used to repair roads and bridges.
The 1750 revocation of the Assiento dramatically changed the slave trade yet again. The system that had been set up to stock Spanish America with thousands of Africans now needed another market. Slave ships began to steer northward. From 1750 to 1770, African slaves flooded the Northern docks. Merchants from Philadelphia, New York, and Perth Amboy began to ship large lots (100 or more) in a single trip. As a result, wholesale prices of slaves in New York fell 50% in six years.
On the eve of the Revolution, the slave trade “formed the very basis of the economic life of New England.”[2] It wove itself into the entire regional economy of New England. The Massachusetts slave trade gave work to coopers, tanners, sailmakers, and ropemakers. Countless agents, insurers, lawyers, clerks, and scriveners handled the paperwork for slave merchants. Upper New England loggers, Grand Banks fishermen, and livestock farmers provided the raw materials shipped to the West Indies on that leg of the slave trade. Colonial newspapers drew much of their income from advertisements of slaves for sale or hire. New England-made rum, trinkets, and bar iron were exchanged for slaves. When the British in 1763 proposed a tax on sugar and molasses, Massachusetts merchants pointed out that these were staples of the slave trade, and the loss of that would throw 5,000 seamen out of work in the colony and idle almost 700 ships. The connection between molasses and the slave trade was rum. Millions of gallons of cheap rum, manufactured in New England, went to Africa and bought black people. Tiny Rhode Island had more than 30 distilleries, 22 of them in Newport. In Massachusetts, 63 distilleries produced 2.7 million gallons of rum in 1774. Some was for local use: rum was ubiquitous in lumber camps and on fishing ships. “But primarily rum was linked with the Negro trade, and immense quantities of the raw liquor were sent to Africa and exchanged for slaves. So important was rum on the Guinea Coast that by 1723 it had surpassed French and Holland brandy, English gin, trinkets and dry goods as a medium of barter.”[3] Slaves costing the equivalent of £4 or £5 in rum or bar iron in West Africa were sold in the West Indies in 1746 for £30 to £80. New England thrift made the rum cheaply — production cost was as low as 5½ pence a gallon — and the same spirit of Yankee thrift discovered that the slave ships were most economical with only 3 feet 3 inches of vertical space to a deck and 13 inches of surface area per slave, the human cargo laid in carefully like spoons in a silverware case.
A list of the leading slave merchants is almost identical with a list of the region’s prominent families: the Fanueils, Royalls, and Cabots of Massachusetts; the Wantons, Browns, and Champlins of Rhode Island; the Whipples of New Hampshire; the Eastons of Connecticut; Willing & Morris of Philadelphia. To this day, it’s difficult to find an old North institution of any antiquity that isn’t tainted by slavery. Ezra Stiles imported slaves while president of Yale. Six slave merchants served as mayor of Philadelphia. Even a liberal bastion like Brown University has the shameful blot on its escutcheon. It is named for the Brown brothers, Nicholas, John, Joseph, and Moses, manufacturers and traders who shipped salt, lumber, meat — and slaves. And like many business families of the time, the Browns had indirect connections to slavery via rum distilling. John Brown, who paid half the cost of the college’s first library, became the first Rhode Islander prosecuted under the federal Slave Trade Act of 1794 and had to forfeit his slave ship. Historical evidence also indicates that slaves were used at the family’s candle factory in Providence, its ironworks in Scituate, and to build Brown’s University Hall.[4]
Even after slavery was outlawed in the North, ships out of New England continued to carry thousands of Africans to the American South. Some 156,000 slaves were brought to the United States in the period 1801-08, almost all of them on ships that sailed from New England ports that had recently outlawed slavery. Rhode Island slavers alone imported an average of 6,400 Africans annually into the U.S. in the years 1805 and 1806. The financial base of New England’s antebellum manufacturing boom was money it had made in shipping. And that shipping money was largely acquired directly or indirectly from slavery, whether by importing Africans to the Americas, transporting slave-grown cotton to England, or hauling Pennsylvania wheat and Rhode Island rum to the slave-labor colonies of the Caribbean.
Northerners profited from slavery in many ways, right up to the eve of the Civil War. The decline of slavery in the upper South is well documented, as is the sale of slaves from Virginia and Maryland to the cotton plantations of the Deep South. But someone had to get them there, and the U.S. coastal trade was firmly in Northern hands. William Lloyd Garrison made his first mark as an anti-slavery man by printing attacks on New England merchants who shipped slaves from Baltimore to New Orleans.
Long after the U.S. slave trade officially ended, the more extensive movement of Africans to Brazil and Cuba continued. The U.S. Navy never was assiduous in hunting down slave traders. The much larger British Navy was more aggressive, and it attempted a blockade of the slave coast of Africa, but the U.S. was one of the few nations that did not permit British patrols to search its vessels, so slave traders continuing to bring human cargo to Brazil and Cuba generally did so under the U.S. flag. They also did so in ships built for the purpose by Northern shipyards, in ventures financed by Northern manufacturers.
In a notorious case, the famous schooner-yacht Wanderer, pride of the New York Yacht Club, put in to Port Jefferson Harbor in April 1858 to be fitted out for the slave trade. Everyone looked the other way — which suggests this kind of thing was not unusual — except the surveyor of the port, who reported his suspicions to the federal officials. The ship was seized and towed to New York, but her captain talked (and possibly bought) his way out and was allowed to sail for Charleston, S.C.
Fitting out was completed there, the Wanderer was cleared by Customs, and she sailed to Africa where she took aboard some 600 blacks. On Nov. 28, 1858, she reached Jekyll Island, Georgia, where she illegally unloaded the 465 survivors of what is generally called the last shipment of slaves to arrive in the United States.” (http://www.slavenorth.com/profits.htm)
This being listed, why should the south be condemned and made to let go of its heritage when the heritage of the north is at stake too. Also does this mean that we should change the American Flag also, so that it represents a more homogenous America leaving no doubt as to which side to be on? These are just a few points that needed to be mentioned and thought about considerably.
I believe that the confederate flag is not about slavery at all, but I understand that there are a lot of nuts(of every race)who believe it is. They have a right to express their opinion, but I also have a right to ignore them. That being said, I am not offended by the flag, and I do occasionally sport one on my home flagpole, and the occasional t-shirt. I have read and studied a great deal about the war between the states. It is in fact one of my favorite subjects. I have read letters from the families of survivors, and those who lost loved ones. In those letters, there is genuine grief expressed both for the lost family members, and the blacks that they knew. If the war were only about slavery, then there would never have been any black soldiers given guns. If you look into it, you will find many many accounts of black americans joining in the battle on both sides. Slavery was of course an issue, but it was by far the smallest one. While the north was complaining about the human rights of the southern slaves, they were ignoring the fact that a great many more free white men women and children were dying slow and painful deaths in their factories every day. If they were so quick to dismiss the suffering of the poor in their own cities, what gave them the right to tell the southern people how to treat their residents? The southerners were understandably bothered that someone so far removed from their lives and world had the right to dictate their laws and policies, including taxation. The taxes they were paying were going to fund northern government, with very little actually trickling back down to the south. Eventually, the southerners had enough of the double standards, and began to respond negatively.
If you need proof that the civil war was about more than just slavery, then read this article about H.K. Edgerton who is a black man and the former president of the Asherton chapter of the NAACP. If an educated Modern day black man can carry the flag without rancor, and not be offended by the flag, then maybe you should take another look at the meaning behind it.
http://www.slrc-csa.org/site/news/2004/04-07-04-news.php
im an american soldier and i know what it means to fight for something the south wasnt fighting for slaves as popular history declares it was for their rights and to not be stepped on yes the south hade slaves but it was going to die out on its own most white people in the south didnt own slaves and lincoln didnt free the slaves until after the war began as an effort to rally the union troops i dont agree with slavery but dixie has a meaning to me most people will never understand as most people will never know what the stars and stripes really mean i will defend both flags for the rest of my life dixie is a symbol of patriotism the same as the stars and stripes it is a reminder of a past day perhaps a dark period in our history but one that needs remembered rebel soldiers fought and died for that flag and the country it represented and may the history live on in future generations IXI
I love the confederate flag, and I’m not even from the south, nor were my ancestors. The flag has been demonized in popular culture, which it doesn’t deserve. The confederate flag (actually the one we all know is a battle flag.) is more about the states’ rights than anything else. It’s the idea that federal government has a place in the country, but that power shouldn’t be exploited and every loophole taken advantage of. From the constitution we learn it is the right and obligation of the state to legislate health, safety morals, and welfare. However, we see that the Federal Government does everything it can to meddle in these state obligations. The Civil war was fought over slavery, to deny it is ignorance. However, it was also fought because the southern states weren’t receiving fair representation (blacks were only counted as 3/5 of a person.) in the House of Representatives. The southern states seceded, regarded as rebellion by the north, and the civil war began. Now, the right to secede is not a right of the state, the only state with that happy power is Texas, so technically the southern states were in the wrong. But if we look back before the framing of the constitution, we find the articles of the confederacy, which granted every state the right to secession. For me, this is what the confederate battle flag is all about, looking the federal government in the eye and saying “Hey! Back off!”
The Civil War was never about slavery. It was about sectionalism and states’ rights. People who care more about thier own states than the nation. John Calhoun’s last statement was “The South, what will become of her?” was about states’ rights. He never said “Keep those African servants enslaved!” Confederate soldiers never even fought for the slavery issue. They were willing to take a bullet to save Cottonaracy. Think of it, in those days you would make loads of money if you invested on Southern slave planations than Northern Industry. They fought to keep rich southern families, for money! Not enslaved beings they called property.
I have read the responses on here, and have come to the conclusion most of you are puppets. The webmaster says he wants someone to define “Southern Culture & Heritage”. I seen several posts that did that very well, yet went unmentioned. It is apparent that even the best answer will not satisfy the webmaster, he has his opinion and everyone else has theirs. If your opinion is not the same as his then you are wrong. If you want to know the definition of a word USE THE DICTIONARY.
A person could put the perfect answer out there, and it still would not be good enough. By that i mean show where they got it, proving it is documneted( not just made up or off the top of someones head) and used as a part of history. And being the perfect answer would piss off many. So i say argue all you want puppets, dance and fight as directed from the web master/puppet master your opinion is yours and not his.
Like i said many answers on here were put together well, minimal cursing, made sense, and if researched will be found out to be true, yet that was not good enough for the webmaster.
dance puppets dance
Like this for instance, a good answer to the question. But there are those who will dismiss it just because it is not agreeable to them. What people fail to realize is that blacks both free and slave fought under this battle flag. Yet this never is brought up, why is this not included in all the arguements that say it is a sign of racists, and racism. Hell the president laid a wreath at the graves of the blacks that fought under the confederate banners. So how is it racist? The civil war was not just over slavery, everyone preaches education yet none want to be honest about what is learned. What is the point in educating yourself if someone else just has to disagree to discredit you?
I was asked once, why I flew a Rebel flag in my bedroom window, and was I racist?
My answer was no, I’m not racist. But there are certain ‘types’ of people whom I would classify with a racial slur.
Now, even the use of that word IS racist. And anyone that has argued that point with me I’ve immediately agreed with, but I stand by one philosophical point.
If I can quote Chris Rock,
“There’s a civil war going on with Black people. And they’re two sides. There are Black people, and then there are N***ers, and N***ers have got to go. Every time black folks want to have a good time, N****ers f**ck it up.”
My point is, I fly a Rebel Flag because I want to make a statement. And my Statement is that I was born and raised in the South, my family’s roots are in the South, and the South has a reputation for being well…Rebels
I suppose you can make the argument that the confederate flag represents culture, and in a way it might.
To me all it means is that I have no patience for ignorant people, white, black, yellow or green. I fly it because it represents a state of mind, because it represents my family’s past and because as a group, Southerners have strong family values. When one Southerner sees the flag, there is a sense of relation between them. Now the extent of that varies…there are those good hearted people that fly it, and then there is the other kind. Like any symbol, it can be perverted.
Flying that flag is a symbol of our history, good or bad. And to pretend like the bad never happened is foolish. I think we should examine it openly, apologize and let it remain what it is and always has been…just a memory.
And if I want to fly the Rebel Flag in my window, It is my right to do so. Take from this what you will, but I still say it’s not racist.
I am loathe to accept the fact that the white racists have hijacked a symbol of Southern Pride and heritage. (Note, I said “Southern Pride”, not “White Pride”) The meaning of the Stars & Bars has been bastardized and misrepresented over the last few decades. Then, there’s the folks from “Up North” that can and will never understand the concept.
First off, thanks for this thread. Its ability to continue to receive comments over time is a testament to the importance of this topic. Also, thanks to the many educated people that posted, its been very educational and informative.
Now, it’s human nature to create your own reality out of something. Meaning that, the flag may represent something different to different people and Black people are going to always view it as a symbol of racism, simply because thats what directly affects them and thats what they choose to see.
As far as racism goes, children are not born racists and a person does NOT have to be white to be a racist. This is a learned behavior that they either learn from their parents or from their peers. Most children will tend to go toward their parents own values and beliefs. My own personal opinion based on my own experiences and discussions is that most Black people are taught to be racist towards White people, which I think is counter productive. I think racism of any kind by anyone is a total waste of time and energy. I think the only way we can begin to eliminate racism is to stop teaching it to children and start teaching them good values, life lessons, and that racism in any form is wrong.
But we do know racism still exists and effects us all in someway or another. Currently Obama is president and I dont agree with everything he’s doing. I dont think we should hurry up and sign a Bill that no one has read, I dont like having people that dont pay their taxes in government positions, I dont want to be a socialist nation, etc. But I dont feel like I could openly say I dont like Obama without being considered a racist by Black people.
Does anyone else out there feel the same way in other areas? FYI, I’m in the Washington DC/Baltimore area.
What is the heritage that we die hard Southerners hold so dear? Why is it we stand to protect this symbol, and to hold tight are arguements for it? Well, its simple. There are many reasons and beliefs, and I will try my best to relay the ones I know of. Lets go ahead and get the idiotic ideals out of the way. There are MANY people today that still use this as a symbol of oppression and racism, there is no doubt about that. My personal belief is they should be strung up from a tree, but I will leave my feelings out of the rest of this. For the ones that ain’t too busy worrying about peoples skin color, there are the ones that call it heritage. What is heritage. The definition of heritage, from webster, is:
1.property that is or can be inherited
2.
a.something handed down from one’s ancestors or the past, as a characteristic, a culture, tradition, etc.
b.the rights, burdens, or status resulting from being born in a certain time or place; birthright
By this definition, there are many ways the confederate flag belongs to our heritage. We’ve had relatives die fighting for this flag. Now, there is much that people do not know about the Civil War in genereal. How about the fact that General Lee did not own slaves, yet many Northern Generals did. Or how about the fact that Lincoln stated that he would not free a single slave if he could hold the Union together. Though not to discredit Lincoln too much, b/c he was always a staunch believer that slavery was wrong, b/c it was, but yet, even he wouldn’t have done anything if he didn’t have to. The point to all this is that many Southern, Confederate soldiers did not own slaves or believe in slavery. Also, there is the fact that there were Southern Black Confederate regiments, and those soldiers were offered everything a white soldier was offered if they fought for the South. In fact, General Lee fought the hardest to have the slaves allowed to come into the service before they were, and even said they should be treated as any other soldier, and be called whatever they wanted. Now, you may be asking by this point, what in the name of all does this have to do with Southern Heritage. Well, it stands that there were men, loyal to the States they came from, loyal to South, that were willing to step up and take the lead, to go against what most people at that time believed, and try in their own way to make the South a better place, for both blacks and whites. That is the heritage that some want to carry on, is that even though most people fought for slavery, some fought for the reason the war started in the first place, and even while fighting, tried to help the cause for every man. And no, the war was NOT started over slavery. In fact, up until about the time of Gettysburg, slavery wasn’t even an issue with the war. The war began over taxation without representation, which if you remember correctly, was the same reason for the American revolution. And no, the taxation was not on the slaves, the North wanted to tax the South more for their imports and exports, way more then they charged the Northern businesses. That is the origins of the war, and after Gettysburg, when the North took the blow hard and support started to dwendle, Lincoln used the slavery issue (which he fully supported even before that) to boost support and moral. Again, I am just trying to add a little bit of history to my explanation. But to get to the point. It is about heritage, it is about where we come from, and what our ancestors fought for. I’ve dug into my history a little bit, and we did not own slaves during that time, which is a big relief to me. But yet, my family fought for the South, b/c regardless of what wrongs the South had, the North commiting a wrong towards the South doesn’t make them right. My heritage is the men that fought for the cause, and didn’t run and hide. Its the strong pride you will find in most Southerners. I am disgusted with the slavery thing, but those slaves were not brought over here by confederate vessels. For that, you have to look further into history. The point is, its a rememberance of the arrogance of some, the pride of others, and the family memebers that were lost, to probably dumbbest war in our history. Now, there are people out there like the white supremisist and the kkk that have taken our flag and used it as a sign of hate. But it would be an injustice for the us that hold on to it for a true meaning, to let idiots like those use it and not stand up for what we believe in. When people you know die, that you are close to, there is usually something people hold on to, whether it be a memory, or something that was personal to that person. Well, growing up, I was raised to believe the truth about the Civil War. Most people in the South were wrong, slavery is bad no doubt, but there were still some that were brave enough to stand against their own brothers and stand against it. My family included. We fought for the South so long ago, even though we didn’t own slaves. It was the principle. I hate that people see that as a symbol of racism, and in some cases even today it is a symbol of racism. I can not control what people do, but I can control what I do. And I will stand by the confederate flag, until brave men and women like General Lee are remembered for who they were, not just what side of a stupid line they faught on. But, to give you a little help in telling those people that ain’t racist, if you see a Dixie Outfitters shirt, then there is someone that isn’t racist. You all should check out DixieOutfitters.com and read some of the stuff on there. Read the mission statement, read about Mr. Edger, a decendant of a black Confederate soldier, and try to understand what it means to be a Southerner. You don’t have to fully believe in someones heritage to respect it, or understand it. But you do have to be willing. Hertitage not hate.
Hey, thanks for taking the time to write this and pose the question in an interesting and intelligent forum. I’ll tell you what I feel it means. (I say feel, because symbols shouldn’t do any more than that.)
I believe this flag is a representation of Southern hospitality. I of course do believe that some white people use this flag with the underlying pretense of white power and long for a time where blacks were subservient and the government wasn’t constantly involved “telling” whites how to treat blacks.
I digress, and will stick to my original theory. This flag to me when I see it means these people will ask you about your day, will hold a door open for you, make small talk in an elevator, recommend a great BBQ joint, not judge you by the label on your shirt, or stop when they see your car stalled on the side of the road. This is what I take it to mean- black or white coming together and being mindful of the people around them, proud of what they have and even more proud to share it with those with them in the “country.”
I’ve lived all over, and I’ve never seen the friendliness of both races while in the South. I’ve always secretly thought that maybe these confederate flag wavers were a bit insecure that they lead such a simple life, but from a transcendentalist point of view, it’s a beautiful one. They don’t have much, but maybe that makes some of them a little more grounded.
Of course this flag has its roots in Civil War, but now I think it just symbolizes a region of friendliness and hospitality. (For me at least.)
I guess I just idealistically long for a time where front porches were the world’s facebook again and it wasn’t apropo to say hello to someone on the sidewalk.
And I am a white male, and nothing makes me happier than to connect to anyone- especially when they are black. We’re all people, and we’re all in this together.
It doesn’t represent the fight to have slaves of the past at all. It represents today and did then the right to choose for our selves. To many people like myself not from the South it’s not as much a Southern thing as it is a Country thing. It represents the right to choose, a way of life, forefathers that fought for the freedom of the state to choose legislature and law for itself free of the federal government and yes that was largely influenced by wanting to own slaves. But today it mainly represents a way of life. And if you think about it we still “essentially” have slaves. What do you consider illegal immigrants who work for little to nothing to put food in their stomachs and clothes on their backs who work like (gasp) slaves before the Civil War.
Salaam Ben,
I haven’t replied in this thread in ages, primarily because I have no desire to, but also because the back and forth debate between the readers on this topic is more lively and in-depth than I feel I can add. Suffice to say that outside of the racial slurs and insults hurled at my person and both racial and religious communities, I have learned many things even from those I disagree with.
While my following contrary may not have a lot to do with your post or this thread, your commentary included little “gems” that I felt compelled to respond to.
You mentioned that the Confederate Flag represents the “right to choose”, while I’m not in the mood to debate the validity of that argument, I find the statement intriguing nonetheless, considering many supporters of said flag are card carrying Republicans. I just thought the irony of the statement was too much to let pass.
Lastly, your comment comparing illegal immigrants to slaves is just a very foolish comparison. Illegal immigrants while often working under horrendous conditions have things the slaves never had, namely choice. They choose to come to America ILLEGALLY might I add, meaning we don’t even allow them to come and yet they come. Many of them do in fact get paid even if the pay is meager. Slaves on the other hand had no choice in coming here, were forced to work without pay for centuries in not only brutal working conditions, but under the constant threat and reality of the whip and much, much worse. I don’t need to comment further.
Eitherway, thanks for your comments.
IM SURE THE DESECENDANTS OF SLAVES WOULD MUCH RATHER BE IN AFRICA NOW THAN IN THE USA…. I WONDER WHY SO MANY FOUGHT FOR THE CONFEDERACY, WHY THEY CONTINUED TO LIVE WITH THEIR “OWNERS” AFTER THEY WERE “LIBERATED.”
the victors get to write the history books and thats why we are taught the south is bad and evil and abe lincoln is this savior
The south has no culture anymore. A handful of historic cities aside, all areas of the south are the same. All I see are fast food and Walmarts.
THE NORTH DID AS MUCH OR MORE TO PROMOTE SLAVERY PRIOR TO SECESSION. LINCOLN WANTED TTO SEND EM ALL BACK TO NIGERIA IF I REMEMBER RIGHT. WHY ISNT THAT TAUGHT IN SCHOOL?
AS FAR AS YOUR “DESIRE” TO LEARN ABOUT “SOUTHER CULTURE” IT’S A SOUTHERN THANG, YOU WOULDNT UNDERSTAND
SEEIN HOW THIS COUNTRY IS GOING AND WHERE ITS HEADED TOWARDS SOCIALISM, THE CONFEDERACY LOOKS LIKE THE BETTER OPTION
why do “african”-americans where african flags on medallions around their necks when they never lived there and most likely never been there?
the thing that i do not get about the whole south being racist and the north not being racist is that the north also had slaves, they were actually the ones who brought the slaves into america from africa and sold them to the south.
Face it, we’re all racist, even unintentionally.
Well…that flag stands for the rights of the states. The south wanted to (and had full right to) leave the union to become there own country. Now dont get me wrong slavery was a shitty reason to leave but nonetheless they had full right to for whatever reason. If the south or if only florida wanted to leave the united states to become there own nation so they could smoke crack freely they are able by right to do so. The south needed a flag and they used many to represent there new nation, the ended with the now known confederate flag (which is st. andrew’s cross with stars). The bonnie Blue flag for example represented part of the south, and a few variations of the “rebel” flag. Actually if you want a racist flag fly the original united states flag the one with the 13 stars in a circle, reason…that was the flag they flew on the boats the black slaves(who were sold by there own tribal chiefs into slavery for iron, ivory and guns) were being shipped over on. The confederate or “rebel” flag is really just the flag they chose for there country, and if anything stands for your right as a human being to have the right to freely go and leave the united states. another reson the south chose the flag because it looks really cool. But now it represents the right USE your rights if i want to leave america ill leave but i obviously dont want to. they didnt say hey we hate black people lets make a flag for it. they just wanted one for there country. Just like iraqi’s pretty much hate us right now or china hates us..we dont ban there flag if they want to fly it and they dont have that flag just because they hate america its there countries flag because that is the flag they chose..not a flag that represents hate of america but of THERE COUNTRY
tom your an idiot, why would you post a link on a website refering to race and then put another link to a website showing the clan with the u.s. flag, wow one picture shows a man with a confederate flag. now all the unrespectably “people” will start a fuss sayin that “o wow it was america that was against us all along” then they will try to use my post your post and all the other posts in a court against some random person just to keep their head above water because as we all know its more important to have the 24″ or bigger rims on a FUCKING car that is not worth more than 500 if even that, but that dont matter cause he is sittin pretty in his ungodly stupid car that he thinks is cool but is really just plain retarted.
-drew
i think all people should be proud of their heritage, their culture, and their history. the problem comes when one race believes they are superior to another race. all cultures are unique, different, and equal.
Look dude, it’s simple. The industrialised northerners were trying to bully about the agricultural southerners in Congress with their superior numbers. That’s why the Civil War started. That’s what the Confederate flag is supposed to stand for. You don’t need any long explanation. The southerners were trying to protect the principles our nation was founded upon. States’ rights are not a small issue; I don’t understand why you passed over them as if they had no significance. Oh wait, yes I do, because the victor writes the histories.
“the thing that i do not get about the whole south being racist and the north not being racist is that the north also had slaves, they were actually the ones who brought the slaves into america from africa and sold them to the south.”
Yeah and when Abraham Lincoln “freed the slaves” he only freed them in the rebellious states. It was all politics and power, people, not principle. DUH! Anyone who tries to make the Civil War about race is undereducated.
Alright I think we can agree that the “fight” started with the south trying to keep slavery, but the “war” was not about slavery. The war was about the ideology of independence from the federal government, not total, but a lot less control by them. The slavery issue just gave evidence that the government could do what they pleased. At the time slaves, yes slavery was wrong and should have been abolished either way, were considered property to the southern people, as wrong as it may seem that’s how it was in the past. They were just as much of property as a piece of land, so let us use that as a substitute, so people can see where they were coming from. To them the government abolishing slavery would be the same as the government coming to everybody that owns a yellow house and saying, “you’re no longer allowed to live here, leave immediately”. And we all agree that is wrong, but not all of us agree that a yellow house is so ugly it should not exist. And that’s how they felt; they honestly believed that the government was forcefully taking what was their property, so much so that they were willing to die for it. The confederate flag that we all know was not the flag that represented the confederacy and all that it stood for. The flag we know was merely the battle flag and therefore the argument could be legitimately made that the flag represents the “loved ones”, as in the people, whom died for what they believed. The other flag, ,the stars and bars, represents what those loved ones fought and died for, as in the “idea” of the confederacy and for which stood. neither should be ,bad per say for they are merely parts of the history of what made us into what we are today A Proud Nation of Equals, but if any the stars and bars flag should have the negative connotation of supporting slavery. As for the confederate battle flag it should be just that a flag of battle, one to remember those who fought trying to defend what, they believed, was right. Just the idea of over 200,000 American men giving their lives to stand up for what they believed in, whether their beliefs where right or wrong is irrelevant, is an amazing and honorable thing and earns the confederate and for that matter the union flag the right to be flown proudly without argument from others. to do so is the same as to proudly display a “support our troops” ribbon at a time of war, whether or not u believe it is a good war worth fighting is not the point, what is, is the fact that you are supporting men and women fighting and dying proudly for what THEY, themselves, believe is right. But after all that there is always the argument that just like the swastika; a sign of, correct me if I’m wrong, the Swedish* air force and an ancient symbol for luck or power, also a symbol that I believe is simple yet fascinating in design; it has been giving a negative connotation, oppose to its realistic denotation, due to an event in history, and there for is found offensive, mostly by close minded or ignorant people, the kind that think they are the most open-minded of all and in thinking this are really just making themselves ignorant, through things such as reverse discrimination. But whether you agree or not is your opinion, each to his own, and whether you like it or not many people are going to view the confederate flag as symbol of slavery so long as hypocritical liberals are around. And by the way, GO Jersey!!!
My great grandfather nor his brothers ever owned slaves. They did not enlist in the Confederate Army to protect the wealthy slave owners. States rights is not to protect slave holders. Lincoln wanted an expanded central govt and limited state govt. Lincoln did not give a whit about slavery; he did not care for Blacks at all-he wanted to ship them all back to Africa. The plantation in Jefferson, Texas with the most slaves was owned by a free black man. The war was about the North setting the Souths agri product prices and the fact that 90% of Fed taxes were taxed on Southerners. School textbooks are controlled by Northern interests. All the political fighting going on now is a continuation of the war-progressives vs conservatives. Democrats still hate Black people. Dens control Blacks by keeping them in poverty and dependent on govt handouts. The 10% of the Black population that are educated and professionals vote Republican. I can prove real quick that the war was not started over slavery. That’s all for now.
So I realize this will not change anyone’s mind here but I will post my perspective here.
I lolove America for freedom of speech. The confederate flag does not mean slavery to me. Yes I am a white male from New Jersey so I understand that statement may not seem surprising. I do think people have taken this context of the flag to mean what they want and some choose it as oppression but there are others it is a sign of a heritage they should be allowed to celebrate. Now you might still say what about those who feel oppressed by that flag? I understand but let’s go further.
The terrorists on 9/11, al Qaeda, ISIL all use the Muslim faith and consequently their flag to represent their attacks on America and the freedoms we love. Should we bolide the Muslim flag and have them choose a new flag in America? Aren’t the people who lost someone in 9/11 all allowed to feel like the Muslim flag is an attack on them? And not on an attack of several generations before but one the recall and directly lost something.
I don’t want to have people be told what the meaning of the flag is because we live in a place where freedom of speech is a valued thing. This goes for the confederate flag or the Muslim flag. Now I am sure I didn’t change anyone’s mind but just realize if we see evil in something others might see evil in something we value. And who is right to tell the other they are wrong?
Weather it’s hateful or not. It is my heritage. My kin fought in defense of their homelands under that flag. That’s enough for me to honor them and you better believe I will pass that tradition onto my son. Besides since when do people have to explain why they should be allowed to use their 1st amendment? The world is filled with miss information. You win the war, you wright the books. In the south it’s referenced to as, the war on northern aggression. They invaded us. On a nother note, How come the crucifix is ok? Didn’t many people get slaughtered in the crusades simply for not believing. Why is one symbol bad and one good. I may be one of few, but I am an athiest confederate. Long live Dixieland.