And who said that Islamophobia isn't real?

A phobia (from the Greek: φόβος, phóbos, meaning “fear” or “morbid fear”) is an intense and persistent fear of certain situations, activities, things, animals, or people. The main symptom of this disorder is the excessive and unreasonable desire to avoid the feared stimulus. When the fear is beyond one’s control, and if the fear is interfering with daily life, then a diagnosis under one of the anxiety disorders can be made. source Wikipedia

I often feel like a broken record, constantly repeating parts of the same song over and over again. For years, I have challenged the illogical, unintelligible, and unreasonable attacks, comments, and stereotypes made about Muslims in general. My reason for even starting this blog was to dispel such idiocy that has spread like a plague in the West by presenting what I hoped would be at the very least, one example of a Muslim who does not spend every thought thinking about destroying the “Western way of life”.

By giving insight into the mind, thoughts, and actions of a very Western Muslim who loves his country and in many ways is just as American as apple pie as the next guy, I hoped that some plagued by the illness that leads to Islamophobia, would at a minimum rethink their ideas. I’m certain I have failed in this mission thus far, but being the glutton for punishment that I am, I press on nonetheless.

Which brings me to today’s commentary in a collection of such ramblings and rantings.

I had the unfortunate pleasure of coming across an article today on Facebook in which a dear friend and dare I say mentor was the target of yet another contrived so-called controversy all due to his acceptance to open up a legislative session with a prayer. Oh dear God, go hide the children, someone is trying to pray for others! Of course, if my dear friend had been of the Christian faith or any other faith other than Islam, there would not have been cause for alarm. However, due to the effective infection rates of the plague that causes Islamophobia, it appears that my dear state of Virginia has much work left to do.

So Imam Johari Abdul Malik, known to those who have actually heard him speak, have talked to him in person, or seen him both on supposed liberal and conservative cable news outlets, as one of the foremost Muslim leaders in the DC area against Muslim extremism, radicalism, terrorism, etc. and known for his work with interfaith projects and community service, has been ridiculously accused of being apathetic to terrorism of course!

Boycott urged for Muslim imam’s prayer in Virginia House

Never mind that there is recorded evidence on both cable TV and radio that Imam Johari is anything but, all that matters is that he is a Muslim and dare accept an invite to open up a legislative session with prayer. One almost have to laugh to avoid crying as it’s sad to know that we live in a nation where one can be targeted not for their works or their beliefs but due to alleged associations and their faith.

So just why was Imam Johari targeted in this manner? Well like an addict who has a million excuses to explain away their addiction or to avoid the truth, the organizers of the protest will concoct ridiculous arguments that all amount to guilt by loose association. Imam Johari is one of the Imams at Dar Al Hijra Mosque in Falls Church, VA and as the internet and especially the islamophobic websites will note, came to national attention because 2 of the 9/11 hijackers just happened to pray there and recently it was noted that the madman of the Ft. Hood tragedy also prayed there and at one time the Yemeni Imam who supported him, was the Imam there as well.

Now to the uninformed, or in this case those looking to validate their illness, this may give cause for alarm. These facts, may even make it plausible that Dar Al Hijra is a haven for mad Muslims bent on causing acts of terrorism. However, even with these facts in place, these conclusions are based on illogical lunacy as they are based on the idea that one is guilty by association. While guilt by association can be proven to be true in some instances such as the guy who is the lookout for others who gang rape a victim, it can be proven just as false if the same guy was just waiting in the car for his friends oblivious to what his associates were doing, or why they wanted him to wait in the car.

Regardless of how many analogies I could try to throw together to explain the lunacy of guilt by association, I’m certain there will be those out there who will bypass the intent of my explanation and opt for attempting to find loop holes in my argument, so for the sake of time and word count, let me say that I fundamentally believe that this entire concept of guilt by association is not only a slippery slope which I will explain, but also a tool used by those with a specific agenda to discredit others, when there are not facts readily available to condemn the individual outright. Afterall, it is much easier to accuse a person when you can just highlight the crimes of those around them right?

So let’s examine the problem with this cute tactic used by those inflicted with islamophobia. What they would want the perfectly healthy and rational among us to believe is that somehow because several deeply disturbed homicidal madmen committed acts of terror, just happened to pray in the same mosque as Imam Johari, that he must also by definition of guilt by association, either be a homicidal maniac himself or a sympathizer of homicidal maniacs. The latter is their actual accusation.

Well herein lies some very large problems with that “logic”.

Imam Johari on many occasions on Larry King Live, NPR, Fox News, and many other media outlets has denounced terrorism, the hijackers, Nedal Hassan, and even the Yemeni Imam. He is on record on both national and local media outlets. So the “tricky” thing for the infected accusers would be that they would have to demonstrate proof that Imam Johari is a consistent liar. Which would be very difficult considering that he also has many works here in the DC community many not reported, where he has actually practiced what he preaches by both rolling up his sleeves to help the larger DC community regardless of faith and encouraged others to do so.

Another problem with this “tricky logic” is that the sick would then have to categorically state that every Muslim who has ever attended services with that aforementioned madmen are also or sympathizers themselves and on this point I take serious issue.

In order for this to pan out, the accusers would have to state matter as a matter of fact, that if one shares a space with anyone who espouses beliefs other than their own, or participates in actions other than their own, that by virtue of praying together they are all the same. Which is exactly what they are saying and this is exactly why they are ill. I have prayed in Dar Al Hijrah mosque on many occasions. I have never heard a sermon remotely close to anything that could be trumpeted as a call to arms for Muslims against those of other faiths, yet does this mean that by virtue of my being present on several occasions over the years that I too categorically accept terrorism as something that is correct? I would love to see someone stick that label on me.

See the problem is not so much with the islamophobes as it is with Muslims in general. We (Muslims) have to stop allowing them to control the message. If we do not allow our voices to be heard we only do ourselves an injustice. Any people who are a silent as we tend to be, opens the door for others to define who we are.

Incidents like this involving Imam Johari are nothing new, it has happened with many Imams in the past, many Muslims in the past, and will continue until Muslims demand just as other groups before us have, that islamophobia and the actions committed by those with the illness against us will no longer be tolerated. We have to be loud and clear on every media platform that we can reach that these people are insane. We have to repel their evil with good as we are commanded in our religion. Until people hear our voices and hear them just as loud as islamophobes and yes the terrorists, we will continue to be labeled guilty by association.

Most people know that it is foolish to assume that anyone in a place of worship regardless of whether they are an Imam, Priest, Preacher, Rabbi, or other spiritual leader that they cannot be held accountable for the actions of their congregants unless it can be proven that they delivered a message or actively encouraged their congregants behavior. Nor can any fellow congregant be held accountable for every other congregant’s actions. It is ridiculous to think that a person even knows about that man or woman sitting next to them on Fridays, Saturdays, or Sunday, let alone the secrets they hold in their hearts.

However, Muslims have allowed an illness to ferment in America and in the West in general, where this logic does not apply to Muslims. By not actively challenging these mad assertions, by not opening the doors to the mosque and our beliefs to the general public, we have not become part of the solution, but part of the problem.

Right now, islamophobes and their followers, would have ordinarily good people believe that Muslims somehow have super powers others don’t possess. Muslims somehow have the ability to be connected to the lives, thoughts, beliefs, ideas, and practices of every other human on the planet that declares that Islam is their faith. Which is why Muslims are all this or that, because we are all connected in ways no other mortal could hope to ever achieve if they are not Muslim. So of course Imam Johari, Robert Salaam, and every other Muslim who has prayed at Dar Al Hijrah or any other mosque on the planet is just as guilty as any other when another Muslim commits a crime, wishes ill will on others, cheat on their taxes, forget to take out the trash when their wives told them to, get bad grades, etc. etc. etc. We Muslims are connected plain and simple do to our superhuman ability to be connected by our faith. So what is true for one Muslim or a group of Muslims is true for all 1.5 billion Muslims even all those babies born as type to Muslim families.

This is the narrative that islamophobes would have us to believe. This is the reality in the media that we face. They organize, produce websites, and write books to promote and spread their illness. Facts don’t matter. Therefore, Muslims like Imam Johari, a man by all accounts is an enemy to extremism and terrorism committed by all humans let alone Muslims, can easily be labeled as being apathetic or a sympathizer and neither the media nor the general public bats an eye.

If one can not see after clear evidence here on display yet again, that irrational fear of a person or group, is not the basis of the reasoning behind those who protested Imam Johari’s acceptance to pray, then there is really nothing that I can write to show you otherwise. However, for those who are sober and can see what is being done, for those who are Muslim and how do not want to one day find themselves the target of these infected irrational “people”, I simply ask, what are you willing to do about it? Will you join me in ensuring that the message about who we truly are as a people is spread? Will you work in your communities, join advocacy groups, start your own groups, and work to promote peace, civility, and understanding among all peoples? I believe that our work will one day trump their words. I implore Muslims of conscience to join me and others such as Imam Johari in working toward that common goal.

I don’t pretend to be naive in my beliefs that somehow we can change the hearts and minds of those plagued by this illness, as only God can do that. God has revealed to us in the Qur’an the very nature of those with whom we are dealing with when He revealed that they will never accept you unless you reject Islam as your faith.

But, what I am stating is that we can still reach those on the fence, those who know better, and others of conscience to not only join us and repealing those in whose hearts live enmity toward Muslims but also working with us to promote and produce a society and world where every man and woman regardless of background can live in peace and without fear. Our differences should not be what repels us from one another but that thing that compels us to get to know one another as God has revealed that He made us diverse in our languages, colors, nations, and tribes so that we may know one another.

May God grant us the heart and mind of mercy and compassion toward our fellow human beings regardless of our differences. May He allow us the ability to use reason in our judgments, wisdom in our discernment, and contentment in our resolve. May Almighty God continue to guide us through the words of His Prophets and His Messengers (Peace and Blessings be Upon Them), and may we all strive to evolve stage after stage until we reach that eventual perfection.




  1. In fact ‘Islmophobia’ is all too fortuitously real for the light it sheds on the dearth of compassion towards those whose rationality has been involuntary afflicted by the putative ‘phobia’. Any original inarticulated intimations would surely find their sturdy rational feet in the abomination of the response to it.   An inevitable consequence of ‘no compulsion in religion’ where compassion is constrained to no more than an inert ‘invitation’.  ‘Islamophobia’ in its bellicose tone  is not the inviolate truth the unschooled, timorous and recklessly self interested have been  prevailed upon to believe it is, but a rhetorical and tactical canard that pathologizes criticism of an religico-political movement that in the end, is forbidden to have  any truck with popular sovereignty. And in this respect  Islamoabhorrence maybe, but ‘Islamophobia’?


  2. Paul the self appointed disciple of Jesus stated that good deeds are like “filthy rags”. One man died for the sins of all, not that every man is responsible for their own sin.  To say that Imaam Johari is responsible for the works and sins of everyone coming into his mosque makes Imaam Johari better than the Christian Jesus!

    Paul introduced this novel concept and philosophy which is nowadays readily applied when you want to put the blame on one man and absolve everyone else. But the Mosaic Law purged such a irrational idea and stated clearly, “the father shall not suffer the iniquity of the son, nor the son suffer the iniquity of the father.” Jesus stamped this statement and said, “I am come not to break the law or the prophets.” So, this is the Law and the way of the sages.

    Since, when did Churches, Mosques and Synagogues put up neon signs saying, “Devils and associates not permitted!”  Men of strong faith like Imaam Johari are only doing their work of leading and preaching, but even Jesus couldn’t catch the Devil and eradicate the human problem….in fact he was tempted by the Devil. So, by association should we say that the Bible gives us the right to accuse Jesus of being a devil (May Allah Forbid).


  3. Robert, what do you think of the studies that have shown a link between Islamophobia and anti-Semitism? (in the West) According to these studies, Islamophobia stems from the same underlying prejudice and  bigotry as the older anti-semitism.


    Since, Arabs and Jews are cousins; Islamaphobia  – being it is a new terminology – should be a subset of Anti-Semitism. “Etymology” of the word Anti-semitism applies to both the Jews (and Judaism) and Muslims (and Islam). Prejudice and bigotry are spiritual maladies that are found in the human heart.  While on the cross and in spiritual anguish (according to the Bible), Jesus called upon God Almighty with His Name,”Eli, Eli….”.  So, one can clearly see that if a person wants to eradicate any negative thing (prejudice/bigotry/pride) from ones heart, the solution is to call upon “Eli” or “Allah”. The interesting fact is that Jesus didn’t just say “Eli”, but he repeated it couple of times, which indicates that when purging the heart of such maladies one has to recite the name of Allah a number of times.


  5. The problem is some of these muslims who, although they do not promote violence, and even condemn it, seem to view non-Muslims as lesser citizens.
    While i may think non-muslims may be wrong on a few things, i dont hold that kind of attitude toward non-muslims like some other people i know.
    I wonder how this type of thinking evolved?


  6. The evolution of this type of thinking: racism, tribalism, prejudice, bigotry and looking down on other people originated when Allah Almighty asked “Iblees” (Shaytaan) to bow to Sayyidna Adam alayhi salaam. So, he replied and said, “Ana khairum min..” (I am better than him). So, on the one hand Shaytaan was so close in service to Allah and being a Jinn was the head of the Angels. The great sages of Islam have always said that Shaytaan had 3-A’ain (the arabic letter A’ain) but Adam had 3-A’ain’s.
    Shaytaan was:
    Aalim (Scholar)
    Arif (Knew things)
    Abid (great worshipper)
    But he was NOT:
    Aashiq (a Lover of God)

    So, when you see Muslims acting contrary and looking down on people you fill find that they lack ISHQ (Love of Allah). One who loves Allah knows that Pride belongs only to Allah and all humans are same and the same.

    When Abu Dhar Ghifari (radhia Allaho anho) made racist remark about Bilal (radhia allho anho) the messenger of Allah was so angered that he said (more or less) to Abu Dhar (ra) – you ignorant, your ignorance has left you and you want to die ignorant. Abu Dhar (ra) came forward put his cheek on the sand in the Masjid An nabawi in front of everyone and requested that Bilal (ra) put his foot on his other cheek. Well Bilal (ra) picked him up and forgave him. This is how the Sahaba crushed their Nafs and pride. Can any Muslim dare to do that today in front of people. Even us as we are blogging and writing are human and I can speak for myself that I may claim not to look down on others but if someone humiliated me I will be angry. WHY? If I am treated bad at a restaurant I want to rush and complain to the manager. This is because we feel our pride is hurt. Don’t take me wrong, we have to differentiate between “speaking out” when wronged and “keeping silent” on injustice. But you get my jist.


  7. Islamophobia IS a myth, but not because your point is wrong.  Islomophobia is a myth because it’s not irrational to fear a belief system.  You are not talking about “Islamophobia” you are talking about “muslimophobia” 

    Muslims are people,  the irrational fear of a category of people is a real phobia because any group of people is diverse, and it is irrational to fear a whole group of people because of the conduct of some of their members (we all do it though).

    Islam is an ideology – the fear of an ideology is not a phobia – it simply takes a different mental concept to fear an idea than it does to fear a person or group of people.  Personally, I do fear Islam.  Not everything about it – for example I do fear the whole “kill apostates” part of the ideology, but the “love one another” part of Islam seems very nice.

    It makes no more sense to say “Islamophobia” than it does to say “democracyophobia” or “free marketophobia”  It simply is not a valid concept.

    The fact that you are discrimiated against is nothing new.  EVERYONE get’s discriminated against.  I’m an athiest – more Americans hate me than hate you I can assure you – in fact a Pew research poll showed that while 2 in 3 Americans distrust Muslims, 3 in 4 Americans distrust atheist.

    So I know all about prejudice, I assure you.  But too bad.  Suck it up – we all belong to groups and everyone has some other group out there who hates and fears us.  You need to just get over it.

    That said, there is a lot to fear in the Muslim ideology – For example, yesterday I learned that 95% of the historical art in Mecca has been destroyed by Saudi Wasabi(?) Muslims, because their brand of Islam so fears idolatry that it is destroying its own cultural heritage.

    I shudder to think of the damage to western civilization’s art and accomplishment if Islam ever really took over the world.

    I really do.

    But I don’t think it’s an irrational fear.  Even thought I believe in neither the Christian nor the Muslim god, I would rather have BOTH the Sistine Chapel AND the Koran.

    That’s just how I roll.  It’s called liberal democracy.
    I don’t think that your faith is compatible with liberal democracy.  I hope that you will change Islam so that it can become compatible with civil society, but I don’t see that happening in my life time.
    Is that an irrational fear?
    Or is it just a difference in opinion?
    Can you tell the difference?
    You said “Right now, Islamophobes and their followers, would have ordinarily good people believe that Muslims somehow have super powers others don’t possess”
    Putting aside the idea that there is no such category of person as an “Islamophobes and their followers”  – I think that some Muslims DO have a superpower that I don’t possess.  I think that they have the magical power to believe that their own death is better than their own life.  When Muslims say things like “we love death more than Americans love life” that sounds like a superpower to me.
    It’s the super-power of believing that when you lay down your life, not only do you not really die, but you also get rewarded by the creator of the universe – A person who believes this considers his/her life much less valuable that I do, since if I were to lay down my life for a cause, it would be the one and only life I have.
    I don’t think that all Muslims think like this, but I DO think that there is a large sub-group of Muslims who do, and the reason that they do is the ideology of Islam.  Why is fear of this ideology irrational again?
    I think that you want to beat your chest and cry “Islamophobe” because it feels normal to you to believe the stuff you believe.  So from inside your own skin, the hyperbole you see going on seems crazy.  But I can assure you, for those of us who don’t believe as you believe, there is nothing irrational about fearing Islam – To me it is a dogmatic and dangerous belief system that was born in the Iron age, and is now armed with 21st century weapons. 
    Most Muslims are very nice people.  Islam is a dangerous and toxic ideology.  See the difference?
    Heck, the word Islam MEANS submission.  I don’t want to submit to your silly little God.
    And the fact that I see people doing violence in his name tells me that my fear is not irrational.







  8. It is not irrational to fear a belief system. The key word you have mentioned is “fear”, otherwise translated in Arabic language is “khauf”. Islam is not just an ideology but a way of life. Islam is not a course work on philosophy and religion. The words “philosophy”, “phobia”, “ideology” and “religion” are nowhere to be found in the Arabic text of the Holy Quran. These are modern terminologies, though meant to explain a concept, usually tend to become subjective.
    It is interesting you have mentioned, “love one another”. Well, there is not a single text book, university, or study in this world that stands up to the clarity of the Quran when it comes to “love”. I am not sure how, you as an atheist, would define the word “love”? Does loving a dog mean, literally the same as loving a human being? So, what is your criteria for defining love? I like to hear your universally acceptable definition that everyone can read it and apply it from the remote villages of India to the high rises of New York.

    It is also interesting that you mentioned, “kill apostates”. Sounds to me like you left Islam and adopted atheism? That is why it is so much on your mind and this “fear” that Islam considers Apostasy a crime is heavy on your mind; otherwise why do you care for such an “irrational” law?
    To tell you the truth, I personally don’t even care if people are prejudiced towards me as a Muslim (or for whatever reasons). I am not an apologetic for those who choose to be ignorant and arrogant (I am not talking about you, just speaking in general). There is nothing to “suck up”, we are who we are and I am a Muslim, Alhamdullilah (all praises to Allah Almighty).
    I know with certainty that you fear “mother nature”. Now, how absurd is that? You submit to mother nature, yet you accuse Muslims of submitting to “Allah”. What you call “mother nature” is “Allah” to us. If you didn’t fear mother nature, I challenge you to ride out the next sunami on a raft, the next tornedo sitting on a folded armchair, and take a nice swim with the perana fish. If you enjoy killer whales and crocodiles, I have the perfect spot for you in Australia where people are barred from going to the beach. Tell me you don’t have fear of “mother nature”…I want to hear it from your lips. Your submitting and prostrating and giving in to “mother nature” is no different than the Muslims bowing and submitting to Allah.
    It is very sad that the Saudi government has destroyed the Islamic heritage and relics; why do you care? You are an atheist? By the way, United States has a vested interest in Saudi Oil, and for years the US government has great ties with the “House of Saud”; even ARAMCO is an American Saudi hybrid joint venture. Isn’t the “House of Saud” responsible for allowing the destruction of Islamic relics and heritage? So, why are US bombers not throwing their daisy cutters on the Saudi’s? You are worried that if the “Wahabi’s” took over the world what would happen? America is least concerned about “wahabism” otherwise the “house of saud” will be under sanctions and embargo!
    Brother Robert has added a link on this blog to 1001 inventions. Please educate yourself on Islamic civilization and its monumental contribution to humanity before insulting humanity with a very close atheistic mind. I thought you were supposed to be open minded? Please watch the video to benefit your mind; hopefully “open mindedness” will take a new dimension for you; after all during the Dark Ages of the Western Civilization, Islam was at its pinnacle of enlightenment. These are undeniable facts, not some fragment of ones imagination.
    Islam is a theocracy not a democracy. That’s just how Islam rolls. It is also interesting that you have talked about “faith”. The Arabic word for faith is Imaan. So, once again you are defining Islam not how its text book defines it but from yourself; and that is unacceptable. You have to have a basis, otherwise I can start pointing to apes in a local zoo and call them humans. And if they are your biological parents, I don’t want to be there when you bring them home! Because to me an ape is an ape and a human is a human. Anyway, I want to know how is faith in “mother nature” incompatible with liberal democracy. How does faith have anything to do with liberal democracy? So, how does faith in Allah, His messengers, His Books, His angels, In the day of reckoning, life after death incompatible with “liberal democracy”. You must be living a utopian liberal democracy in your own mind. Maybe, surfing the internet everyday watching pornography is compatible with you life style, how does that make you more democratic or less democratic? Yes, people have tried and will try changing Islam. You don’t have to make a wish or hope for this…because the messenger of Allah (peach be upon him) has already informed the 1.2billion Muslims of  the fact that people will come and change this religion so beware and “follow my way and the way of my companions”. 
    Once again you talk about a “civil” society. This is such a subjective statement that you can find aisle’s after aisle’s in the Library of Congress on this  subject! Just google the word….but you can not state a word to unite humanity or bring peace to mankind with your concept of “civil society”. There is not difference of opinion when it comes to Islam as to who is “mother nature”.
    No Muslim says that we love death more than Americans love life; because Americans are a collection of various people including Muslims. So, your statement is irrational and an apostasy against truth. You have just killed a universal fact by uttering a blatant lie. What I recommend to you Susac, is to go line by line through the Quran and point out where “magical powers” are listed in the Quran and that such an erroneous belief is stated in the Quran. Without citing evidence, I am sorry to say that you are committing a crime of spreading lie; and stating what is not true. What is really a super power is “mother nature”. I wonder what you would do if a plane lost both engines and you knew that you will fall off the sky and die. Would you love your life more than dying? And what will it really matter? Why even have such fear? So, what motivates you at that critical juncture to embrace life? Who do you ask for help? If you laydown your one-and-only life for the sake of “mother nature”, in a good cause of saving some trapped miners the reward that you offer back to humanity is “fossil fuel”. But what if you found out that you die and there is another life; won’t it be wise to embrace a more open mind to accept that life can have a reward beyond this life? Because if I as a Muslim die and will become just dust and dirt like you then embracing death should be a non issue for you since the end is dirt and dust. But what if it is not dust and dirt? You will be better off accepting life after death concept when you have nothing to lose. It’s a win-win situation to Embrace Islam.
    No one is beating their chest and worried about the conditions and circumstances of the current times. What is really dangerous and dogmatic is atheism. Atheism is a human crime that has no head, no tail and no direction. It has not emotions, no beliefs, no checks and balances…where humans are compared to animals, and origins of humanity are likened to Apes. In reality, when the west had embraced atheism it went through “DARK AGES” not Islam. Unfortunately, atheism has now become more equipped with modern technology to twist and turn facts for gratifying its innate animal needs. That is why killing, bombing, murdering, prostitution are all liberal civil values. Morality is to commit incest.


  9. Nadeem Siddiqi, your post was pretty much all over the map, so I’m going to have to pick and choose what to respond to.  There is just too much ground to cover.
    Fear of nature – a phobia is an “irrational fear.”   Fearing the forces of nature is not irrational.  You are focusing on the word “fear.”  This is a mistake.  Fear is normal and healthy under lots and lots of circumstances.  My point is that fearing the ideology of Islam is not irrational, because I believe that Islam (like any theocratic system of government) is the natural enemy of liberal democracy.  I value liberal democracy; therefore it is rational that I fear Islam.
    Killing apostates – I have not ever been a Muslim, however I do have a friend who is a Muslim (a Saudi woman), and I see her as going through the process of waking up the oppressive nature of your religion and I can see that she is beginning to question Islam and wants to leave it.  As she begins to demand equal rights as a woman, she is coming into conflict with her family.  I fear that they will harm her.  So yeah, I have some personal motives here.  Again, I do not think that they are irrational.
    Destroying Islamic Heritage – I care that the Saudis are destroying Islamic heritage because I value human art and culture, even if I think that the ideology that gave rise to that art and culture is wrong.  I am intellectually able to separate out the accomplishments of humans from the batshit-crazy things that humans believe.  As for my government’s bombs, I agree that much of American foreign policy is evil, crazy and stupid.  That doesn’t make the Saudi government any less evil crazy or stupid.
    1001 inventions – As I said, I put great value on human culture – I think that the Islamic culture should be proud of the contributions that it has made to the fund of human knowledge.  This doesn’t change the fact that generations upon generations of Muslim children have been given a one book education – the idea that the Koran is the last word of the creator of the universe is a horrible idea – it promotes the closing of minds and the destruction of the diversity of thought. I’m no historian, but my impression is that this doctrine is one of the main reasons that western culture succeeded in bringing the world into the modern age, while the Muslim culture lagged behind.
    You said:  “No Muslim says that we love death more than Americans love life”
    This statement is simply untrue.  Look it up
    You Said:
     “You have just killed a universal fact by uttering a blatant lie. What I recommend to you Susac, is to go line by line through the Quran and point out where “magical powers” are listed in the Quran and that such an erroneous belief is stated in the Quran. Without citing evidence, I am sorry to say that you are committing a crime of spreading lie; and stating what is not true”
    I find this statement hilarious!  You are telling me that I have to sight proof that the Quran talks about magic powers?  What about Allah?  Didn’t he create the world in 6 days?  Didn’t he make Adam and Eve?  How did he do it?  DIVINE MAGIC!!!  Your whole belief system is based on magical powers!
    On top of this, you insist that I “show proof.”  I have to ask you – where is your proof that Allah exists?  All you know is that when you were a little boy some adults told you a story about an invisible magical person named Allah and then they used this belief to indoctrinate you into your religion and to get authority over you.  They told you about the magical places of heaven and hell that you magically go to when you die.  YOU HAVE NO PROOF FOR ANY OF THIS!  All you have is a book that a warlord wrote 700 years ago that you call the “Holy Quran.”
    The word of an authority (ESPECIALLY a divine authority) does not constitute evidence!
    The fact that you don’t know this is not your fault.  The fact that you don’t know this is the fault of the same people who taught you that Allah exists in the first place.  But it IS your responsibility to learn reasoning skills now that you are an adult.
    Authority comes from evidence
    Evidence DOES NOT come from authority!  
    An idea isn’t true just because an authority (like the holy book) says it is. 
    The Quran is evidence that once upon a time someone wrote a book, AND NOTHING ELSE.
    So please, show me your evidence that Allah exists.  Show me your evidence that Muhammad was his prophet, and show me your evidence that your ridiculous beliefs somehow make you more moral than anyone else.  And while you are at it, show me that Adam and eve were made in the garden, that the world was made in 6 days and that Muhammad flew into heaven on a winged horse.  Your worldview is based upon mythology.  That is to say “magical stories”
    Seriously, PLEASE LEARN BASIC REASONING SKILLS.  You are a grown man (I assume); you should really be able to tell whether or not you know something or if you simply take it on faith.  I get the impression that you lack this skill.
    Our ape-like ancestors – The evidence shows that evolution is true.  The evidence shows that we are a species of ape, on the same family tree as chimps and orangutans.  If you don’t like it, too bad.  You might as well deny the existence of a rainstorm.  Your beliefs don’t change the evidence.  Please PLEASE read a book other than the Quran!  There is a HUGE amount of evidence supporting this worldview.  At least learn it well enough to make a meaningful argument against it.  You are really coming across as ignorant.
    Jack Maclean – I have no idea what you said. 
    Adam – It’s easy to see why people of faith believe non-believers are “lesser citizens.”  If the creator of the universe disrespects the non-believer enough to burn him/her in hell, then it’s pretty easy to write that person off, don’t you think?
    On the one hand the Abrahamic religions preach tolerance toward all peoples.  On the other hand anyone who is not a “true believer” goes to hell thanks to an intolerant deity.  It’s sort of schizophrenic don’t you think?


  10. One last point – If our people and our leaders respected the seperation of church and state, then there would be no boycot of a muslim prayer, because there would be no official prayer in the houses of government.

    What the origional post was REALLY about is that the priveleged christians are opressing the minority muslims.

    This is true.  They ARE opressing the minority muslims, but this is EXACTLY why it’s important to respect the seperation of church and state!


  11. Richard Said:  “I don’t pretend to be naive in my beliefs that somehow we can change the hearts and minds of those plagued by this illness, as only God can do that. God has revealed to us in the Qur’an the very nature of those with whom we are dealing with when He revealed that they will never accept you unless you reject Islam as your faith.”
    I want to challenge this statement as well.  I don’t think it does any good to wait around for God to change the hearts and minds of prejudiced people.  I think that it is OUR responsibility to hold each other accountable for our prejudices and to create a culture that:
    1)      Recognizes that all human beings have biases
    2)      Recognizes that all human beings identify with multiple groups of people who are like them (in-groups).  These groups include family, friends, co-workers, church members, sports fans etc. etc.
    3)      Recognizes that all human beings tend to be biased TOWARD our in-groups and biased AGAINST our out-groups.
    These instinctual psychological processes are part of our survival equipment – human beings cannot survive without other human beings – certainly we can’t make it to adulthood at any rate.  But the down side of this is that we tend to vilify the other.  This is not an “illness” as Richard calls it.  Rather it is a natural side-effect of the way that human beings form social groups in order to get their needs met in competition with other social groups.
    The solution to this problem is not to pray to Allah.  The solution for this problem is for us to hold each other accountable to be aware of our own prejudice.  I am NOT saying we need to blame each other for our prejudices, but rather that we need to:
    1)       Own our own prejudice –Serve as an example to others that it’s OK to recognize that we all do this.  We are all bigots sometimes.
    2)      Call people out when they say something stupid – As in – “that was a pretty prejudiced statement you made right there”
    The solution is not prayer.  The solution is awareness, and accountability.
    Oh yeah, and give blood.
    It has nothing to do with this topic, but do it anyway.  It is scientifically proven to also be more effective than prayer.  You can even pray while you do it if you like!


  12. Liberal democracy is the natural enemy of humanity, since Islam has come to preserve humanity, liberal democracy is the natural enemy of Islam. I agree.
    Millions of women and girls in India die every year from oppression. Women in the western society are battered, used as sex objects to promote corporate business, discriminated at workplaces and are used for feeding the liberal insatiable desires of men through pornography. You should know the women were not even given rights in the west until the 19th century. Now, that Afghanistan has been opened, BBC just featured a program on the silence Amnesty and Women freedom champions have adopted over resolving the problem of women in that country. Your liberal hypothetical discussions have done nothing to resolve any problem. Why don’t you tell us what you have actually done to make any change? Islam is the only way of life in the world that has clearly codified the rights of women. Even the Christian Bible or any ancient religion or system has never defined how many wives a person can have. It is great to scream and shout against polygamy, but Islam is the first to define the limits. Unlike the liberal democracy where you have no institution or system to guide you in this matter; where a wife and a mistress are all alike. Unfortunately, when you look at the US tax laws, a wife with kids offers a man tax breaks but having a mistress brings no advantage. You almost sound like Noam Chomsky; talk the talk but not walk the walk.
    What about Allah? What about “forces of nature” or “mother nature”? There is nothing magical about Allah or what you call “forces of nature”. As easy as it is for you to belief in the power of a tornado, it is no different for us to belief in Allah. Ask the scientific guru’s if they have unraveled the ‘mysteries’ of how and why tornado’s are formed, why the black hole and stars are born. This all magically happens? You seem to have a very closed mind. Somehow, your bias has taken over your ability to clearly see facts. In fact, just ask the doctors how a new child is born; and if science has unlocked the magical powers that bring about the birth of a new life. And what about your brain? Can you go to brain surgeon and have him replace your brain with a new Apple Computer? No the brain magically contributes to keeping the most complex machine working; the human being.
    The proof that Allah exists is in the fact that you call him “forces of nature”. That is Allah to us, “forces of nature” to you. That is the proof. Can you please cite a book written in the annals of human history by a warload, other than Muhammed (sallahu alayhi wa sallam) that transformed entire nations, leading to the greatest human inventions and discoveries and the creation of a language system. In fact, Rossetta stone (a western created software) acknowledges that the Arabic language, its grammer and its phonetics were defined by the Koran; to be known as Modern Standard Arabic (MSA). So, can you please point the readers to a warlord that brought about a new language structure; used today by millions and taught widely in Western Universities. If you can’t show me any body of his likeness in human history, I am inclined to believe in Muhammed (sallahu alayhi wa sallam) and his message because it has brought enlightenment to mankind. As far as “heaven” and “hell” goes I am inclined to trust the words of Muhammed (sallahu alayhi wa sallam) whose ways have shown mankind the way to live. For example, the reason I know your writings can not uplift any human misery can be shown from this simple question. When you use the restroom, do you wipe your butt with a tissue paper after taking a dump or wash it with water? And if by association with Muslims you have learnt that washing the butt is much more hygienic than you have believed in Muhammed (sallahu alayhi wa sallams) universal message of truth! When you answer this question for me, you would have answered your own question, “The word of an authority….does not constitute evidence”.
    Just to let you know, your great grand father Descarte’s in his “proof” for the existence of God said, “something can not come from nothing”. If you have a chair, it has to have a carpenter. So, you are a living proof that you came from something, because nothing will produce nothing.
    Let me educate you on Basic Reasoning skills, because I get the impression that you also lack reasoning. Here is the question posed by the great scientist Kant:
    Take a piece of plain white paper. Using a marker put a large dot in the center of the page. Now draw a line 45degrees from the horizontal all the way to the end of the page. Draw a second line at –45 degree from the horizontal. Basically you will have a “<” shap on your page. Now draw vertical lines about 1inch apart that join the top line to the bottom line. These are “FINITE” lines right? Let me ask you this question, since you are a champion on reasoning; “At INFINITITY is the vertical line “finite” or “infinite”? I like to hear your reasoning.
    Since, you are an evolution theorist, why don’t you visit the following website to learn a bit more…; I will be very interested in seeing the “evidence” and your experience based on scientific research from “Harun Yahya”.Susac, we will come to hell and heaven after you have answered some of my questions. The concept of heaven and hell are not for immature minds.


  13. Susac,
    You go ahead and seperate the church and state in your mind. Islam is a way of life; and politics is a way of life; so Islam and politics are inseparable. Since, nothing can not be created from nothing, and “mother nature” is a power to reackon. As much as we can not separate the power of natural disasters and their effect on our “state of life”; so can we not seperate Islam from “state”. The Church is actually worse than a “crack house”; they are an “ICE HOUSE” – they freeze the persons brain. So, yes I do not advocate Church and state, but Islam and State makes for perfect harmony. Synchronize the two, and you will have the statement of George Bernard Shaw flashing in front of your eyes; If only Muhammed (saw) was a dictator of this world, all our problems would be solved”!


  14. Nadeem, once again you are giving me a wall of text that boils down to “I’m not ignorant, YOU are ignorant!”
    Of course I am ignorant of many many things, but that does’t make you any less ignorant of the things that you are ignorant of.
    Maybe we can agree that we are both ignorant and both learned, and that we have things to learn from each other?
    You are kidding yourself if you think that prostitution and the abuse of women doesn’t also happen in Islamic societies.  EVERY society has social ills and Islamic societies are not magically more moral than any other social system.  In fact, I think Islamic society could do with a dose of women’s rights.
    Islam DOES codify the role of women.  It codify’s them as second-class citizens.  The Koran gives husbands the right to beat their wives.  It takes 2 women to equal the testimony of a man in court.  Etc. Etc.  When you have been brought up to believe that “the Koran is the perfect word of Allah” you NEVER LEARN TO QUESTION THE KORAN!!!  Here in America, we don’t kill people for holding hands in public.  We don’t stone children in the street for shoplifting.  These are real practices in Islamic nations, and they are barbaric and they are also codified by your religion.  So quit kidding yourself that your religion is not violent, because it is.
    What evidence would convince you that there are bad things happening in the name of Islam?  Or do you simply decide that if it’s in the name of Islam it’s not really bad?
    Here in America, when someone kills an abortion doctor they go to jail.  It’s called the rule of law – we don’t let citizens take the law into their own hands, and we don’t pretend that Allah wrote them in order to make ourselves feel better.  Here in America, WE write the laws, and while they are never perfect, they are MUCH better than Sharia.  We also hold people who wrote them accountable for their actions.
    Who holds your prophet accountable for the bad laws he created?  Oh that’s right- he avoided all responsibility for creating your laws by saying that Allah did it for him.
    You can go on about the bible all you want.  I have no love of the bible.  I consider it a book of bronze-age & iron-age mythology (like the Koran).  There is great wisdom in both books.  There is also utter nonsense and brutality.  I am thankful that I live in a culture that has an establishment clause in the constitution, and I am active in promoting the separation of church and state.  We sometimes base our laws of Christian morality (unfortunately), but we DON’T use the bible as a law book.
    Still, you can piss and moan all you like about how sinful democracy is.  Islam didn’t fly men to the moon.  Allah didn’t teach anyone about how germs cause illness.  He didn’t explain electricity or how atoms work.  Our constitution doesn’t demand the destruction of art, or punish anti-religious views as blasphemy.  Here in American I can say what I want, and if I want to say that Allah was Muhammad’s sock puppet and that Allah is a tool for mind control, then no one is going to arrest me or have me executed.  Robert serves that constitution and my right to say such things btw.  Thank you Robert.
    The only reason the Islamic world isn’t more backward is because they had enough oil money to buy technology from the west.  Yes, Muslim nations have done much to advance human knowledge, but that was hundreds of years ago.  What have you done for us lately?  If you believe that the Koran is the last word of Allah, then there is no reason not to burn all your other books.
    Say, didn’t the Muslim world go through a book-burning period a couple of centuries back?  Didn’t’ they do it in the name of Islam?  Maybe THAT’s why we made it to the moon and you didn’t. 
    Do you think?
    What about Allah? What about “forces of nature” or “mother nature”? There is nothing magical about Allah or what you call “forces of nature.
    You are the one who brought the forces of nature into this discussion.  If you want to define Allah in terms of physics that’s fine by me.  But what evidence do you have that there is actually an intelligence guiding the universe?  We understand physics – we can use that understanding for all kinds of things.  How does calling it divine change any of that?  Once upon a time, people like you thought that lightning was the will of Allah.  They thought it was magic.  Now we understand electricity.  It’s not magic any more.  Magic is what we call things when we don’t know how they work.  How does Allah work exactly?  How does he influence and guide the world?  Is it magic?  It sure sounds like magic to me.
    In any case, what evidence do you have that this intelligence ever spoke with some Saudi warlord 700 years ago?  The answer of course is none.  You have no evidence.  That is what faith is.  Faith is the LIE that you can know something without any evidence.  You are being mind controlled.   Revelation is not a valid form of knowledge.
    Can you please cite a book written in the annals of human history by a warload, other than Muhammed (sallahu alayhi wa sallam) that transformed entire nations, leading to the greatest human inventions and discoveries and the creation of a language system.
    Ideas don’t have to be true to be effective.  But OK, I’ll rise to this challenge – Ch’in Shih Huang Ti founded the Chin dynasty and united China under his rule.  He has affected far more lives than your prophet, and he couched his rule as a “mandate from heaven.”  He transformed entire nations and his work lives to this day.  Of course he didn’t write any books.  The big religious traditions of that nation are Confucianism and the I-Ching
    Of course, I could point to Moses, who was a warlord who wrote the Old Testament (by some accounts anyway) and who founded the religion of Judaism, and which Muhammad plagiarized heavily from.
    Joseph Smith founded the Mormon religion by making up bullshit stories that justified the slaughter of Native Americans.  Mormonism isn’t as big as Islam, but it’s a much younger religion.  Give it time.
    I’m sure I could find similar stories in India, and pretty much all throughout the equatorial regions of the Europe and Asia.
    It is a common practice for ALL warlords to declare themselves holy – It legitimizes their rule.  Once you start having people asking questions about your legitimacy, it’s nothing but work! Work! Work!  Calling yourself holy is SO much easier.
    The accomplishments of Muhammad are really nothing great.  He was one tyrant among hundreds.  He just happens to have been YOUR tyrant, so you are biased toward his teachings.
    When you use the restroom, do you wipe your butt with a tissue paper after taking a dump or wash it with water? And if by association with Muslims you have learnt that washing the butt is much more hygienic than you have believed in Muhammad (sallahu alayhi wa sallams) universal message of truth! When you answer this question for me, you would have answered your own question, “The word of an authority….does not constitute evidence”.
    So you are saying that since my cultures’ hygiene practices are different from yours, you are clearly superior to me?  Wow.  I somehow doubt that the rates of cholera and dysentery in the USA are anywhere near those in the middle-east.  Your health practices are probably fine, but many poorer nations lack indoor plumbing.  Still, I think it’s pretty weird that you think it matters if I wash my ass or wipe it with paper – either way, I wash my hands afterwards, and I don’t get sick.
    Just to let you know, your great grand father Descarte’s in his “proof” for the existence of God said, “something can not come from nothing”. If you have a chair, it has to have a carpenter. So, you are a living proof that you came from something, because nothing will produce nothing.
    Well, Descartes was a smart guy, but he was limited by his culture (as we all are) and so he was also wrong about a lot of things.  But that is besides the point.  It seems to me that you are trying to say that something must have made the universe, therefore, Allah exists.  I don’t think you can say this.  How the universe came to be is a mystery.  Saying some god came along and made it doesn’t answer the question  – all you are doing is labeling the mystery “the will of Allah” and pretending that you answered the question.
    There actually IS a 100% scientifically true answer to the question “where did the universe come from.”  The correct answer to this question is “I don’t know.”
    When I admit that I don’t’ know, then I have an open mind, because I am open to learning.  If I pretend to know the answer then I stop being curious, so my mind closes. 
    But what I DO know is that I have NO REASON to believe that a deity made the universe – it is just one theory among many.  Maybe it’s true, maybe it’s not.  I have no evidence either way, so I have to live with the fact that I don’t know.  I believe that is a grown-up response.  The universe doesn’t owe me any answers. 
    I also have NO REASON to believe that your Muhammad had any more knowledge about these things than I do.  In fact, I’ll bet that I am MUCH better educated than he was (I’ve had 20 years of formal schooling so far, and wasn’t’ he illiterate?  I’ve heard different stories about that).  The idea that he had the truth revealed to him by Allah is just silly – for all I know the guy had a brain tumor.  Or maybe he was a con-man.  Or maybe he was just deluded by his own religious fanaticism.  There is no reason to believe revelation.  All you can do is take it on faith.
    So your argument fails.  You have proved nothing.  All you have done is assert that if I don’t know the answer to a question, then you get to claim that Allah did it.  This is a failed argument.  I admit that I don’t know where the universe came from.  But YOU have not proved that YOU DO.
    The geometry question – I did not understand your explanation of the question.  Could you please be clearer.
    Since, you are an evolution theorist, why don’t you visit the following website to learn a bit more…; I will be very interested in seeing the “evidence” and your experience based on scientific research from “Harun Yahya”.
    I see that Islam has its own evolution deniers.  I’m not really surprised.  People of faith often prefer their mythological stories of creation to evidence-based reasoning.  Christians have them too – check out “Answers in Genesis.”  The two websites are very much alike really.
    Still, I suspect that you are making the mistake of only looking at arguments you agree with.  Try checking out this site:
    It will show you all kinds of amazing things about this incredible world we live in – not just evolution, but the whole shebang.
    Susac, we will come to hell and heaven after you have answered some of my questions. The concept of heaven and hell are not for immature minds.
    I completely disagree with you here.  Heaven and hell are ideas that people dreamed up BECAUSE they had immature minds – they wanted to think that the world was fair and they wanted to think that they wouldn’t die.
    I live in an unfair world, and someday I will die.  At that time, I don’t know what will happen, but I will probably cease to exist.  But I’m INCREDIBLY lucky to be here!  I’d like to think that this is a pretty mature attitude.
    You go ahead and seperate the church and state in your mind. Islam is a way of life; and politics is a way of life; so Islam and politics are inseparable. Since, nothing can not be created from nothing, and “mother nature” is a power to reackon. As much as we can not separate the power of natural disasters and their effect on our “state of life”; so can we not seperate Islam from “state
    I don’t really care if they are separatable in your mind or not.  What matters to me is if they are separated IN THE LAW.  A theocracy is a horrible form of government.  I will fight and die not to live in one or to see my children live in one.
    but Islam and State makes for perfect harmony. Synchronize the two, and you will have the statement of George Bernard Shaw flashing in front of your eyes; If only Muhammed (saw) was a dictator of this world, all our problems would be solved”!
    Yeah, perfect wife-beating, book-burning, adulterer stoning harmony.  Thanks.  I’ll pass.
    I find it very revealing that you long for Muhammed to be the dictator of the world.  So you want to live under a dictator do you?  How sad.
    Robert, if you are reading this, do you REALLY think you can reconcile your oath to serve the constitution with your Islamic ideology?  I sure don’t.


  15. Yes, we can agree to disagree. Where did I write that abuse and prostitution does not happen in the Islamic societies? Women in Afghanistan are eagerly awaiting the Western dose for liberating the women? Rather than administering the dose, it seems the champions of women rights have dozed-off!
    Please show in the Quran where it is written that “women are second class citizen”. Once again you have spoken a lie Susac. It seems in your definition of liberty, lying is acceptable. How does the inter-relationship of husband and wife lead you to conclude that the Quran makes women a second-class citizen? You are confusing equality with identity. Islam considers women and men equal but not identical. Why aren’t Urinals put in the restrooms of women? Is it because they are considered second class citizens? You seem to be very confused in understanding this fundamental difference.
    Can you please show a documented case or point to Islamic countries that stone people for holding hands in public; especially those of opposite sex. I mean I have seen men holding hands and no one said anything in the Islamic world, and also men-women…but in America if men-men hold hands people look down at such a practice and coin it “gay”. Where is it in the Quran that people should be killed for holding hands?  Stoning children for shoplifting???? Where is this practiced? Which Islamic world are you talking about? So please quit making up stories and I want you for once to cite actual Quranic text to support your allegations. It is very clear that you have a lot of hate towards Islam when you don’t even know what is written in the Quran. Please step out of your Hollywood mentality.
    ”Bad things in the name of Islam” – bad people will do bad things and if bad people choose to use label their actions as Islamic that does not mean that Islam advocates such actions. You are making some very absurd claims.
    America has in fact implemented most of the Sharia law without saying it is Sharia. The currency notes you carry have the phrase, “In God we Trust”. The country is build like the pyramids and is under the supervision of the “one eye” – meaning God. Muslim countries on the other hand have implemented dictatorship/kingship without any recognition of the Sharia.
    Malaysia is a great example….and I hope you get to travel to Malaysia…where Malays, Hindus and Chinese all live together under the law. The sharia courts run in parallel giving “Muslims” the choice to leverage their cases either way. I am not sure why you keep thinking in such a narrow perspective. I have heard testimonies from English folks, “this s a great country, even better than UK, where all religions live in harmony and peace.” Your mind is stuck on Saudi Arabia; where the general Muslim consensus is that the House of Saud is corrupt and the so called sharia and rights of women are totally violated. No one denies this…no Muslim is unaware of Muslim governments and their hypocrisy. You think you speak the pain of the common people. I read only one thing, you are a heartless person, selfish, full of hate and insensitive to humanity. It is people like you that run cartoons in their heads about Islam. Get out of your little utopia, travel and see the reality. I told you before, you are no better than Noam Chomsky – just talk the talk, but show me what is your walk?
    Now, let us take a step back. I proved to you Allah exists, unless you go against the proofs I presented. I have asked many questions which you have not answered. If you had an iota of honesty and sincerity in your spiritually constipated heart you would have given me the answers. You back again running your mouth loosely on Muhammed wrote the book and flawed laws. You are the one that has taken a piss and put that organ of yours back into your pants without washing. At least Muhammed (sallahu alayhi wa sallam) was less educated than you but illuminated the hearts of 1.2 Billion people to learn the basics of using a bathroom. What is your sphere of influence? You can’t even get basic facts straight!
    I am glad you base your morality on the Bible, no wonder, Morality is taking a hike! Had you been more prudent and put your bigotry against Islam aside and used the Quran, you would have reduced the tax burden of the people and improved the morality of the society. Once again, I didn’t say that democracy is sinful. These are your words that you are putting in my mouth. 
    Did you speak up against George W.Bush for starting a war that has cost humanity a fortune; and has brought an economic crisis which is still not over? Did you? Today Obama is in power so you have a little breather space.
    I am glad you made it to the moon after 1400yrs ago. Muslims learnt everything about the moon, Known in Quran as Surah Al-Qamar (chapter 54). You are 1400yrs late in landing on the moon. We landed on the moon and came back to tell you that there is nothing there; don’t waste the US taxpayers dollars for a space program that has yet to tell us something. Indeed, it is a great feat to propel a human onto the moon. But what did the space discovery, or moon walks give back to humanity? Can you please give me one documented benefit of this wasteful exercise. What do you think? 
    Keep your discussion objective on the subject of magic. You are all over the map, and no physicist will ever take you serious for what you have written. So, please don’t pretend to act as if you know physics.
    Since, Muhammed (sallahu alayhi wa sallam) was illetrate how did he write a book? You have answered all your questions by acknowledging that Muhammed was unlettered, so it is impossible for an illetrate to write a book. So, how did he manage to read and plagiarize? I have read Hawkins very thoroughly.
    Well you seem to have violent tendencies that you are willing to live and die for a cause. I see that you are now trying to Blackmail brother Robert; reading him his Merinda rights? So, is this your way of insulting and threatening people? What it goes to show is that you are a dangerous person, that will blackmail, kill and die to eradicate Muslims. And when someone tries to show a mirror to you, you are willing to throw your dogs at them!


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